ECT Grace is unconditional but not universal

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Its the heretical teaching of Marowbe the mighty, who in fact works his own faith.
LA

At least you got my full name correct. :rotfl:

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

They ramble on when refuted. They can't do anything else till God softens thier heart

I think YOUR problem is, you have a soft brain. :rotfl:

 

[Sonnet]

No properly instructed Reformed person would expect to hear a preacher or anyone saying to a specific person that Our Lord died for that specific person. How can we presume to know the secret will of God to make such a statement?

http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?117475-Did-Christ-die-for-all-men/page8

Paul had no such misgivings - for he told unbelievers, 'Christ died for our sins.' 1 Cor 15:11.

Consistent Calvinists won't do as Paul did.

Galatians 1:8-9.

 

[TulipBee]

What is clear is that you will not express to unbelievers that which Paul explicitly says constitutes the essence of the Gospel. Instead you go to scriptures that are obviously about believers:

Romans 8:23-30
Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies. For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what they already have? But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently. In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans. And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God’s people in accordance with the will of God. And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

Compare this to 1 Corinthians 15 where Paul speaks of what was preached when he first came to the Corinthians and what he currently preaches.

TulipBee, would you care to remind believers (on this forum) of what would have been preached to them (just like Paul did in his Corinthian letter) which they 'received and on which they have taken their stand'?

Will you? For Paul says:

By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

Here are the words used:

For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Cephas, and then to the Twelve. After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep.

No, the exact words don't have to be used, but, certainly, they must be the equivalent else you'd be preaching a different Gospel and, as we know, Paul cursed those who do that.

I'm asking you TulipBee, in the light of Paul's words here, what would have been preached?

God tells the Calvinists to proclaim the gospel to all, even to those that will never believe. The general call is the call to 'all', your kind of 'all'. The only kind of 'all' you know. The other 'all' is the 'all' you don't understand. If you don't understand then you only fit in one class of 'all', your kind of 'all'.

In other words, it's all about you. You teach meism. You dont ask, you demand salvation with a threat

 

[Cross Reference]

Still waiting for your response going way back.
http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...ot-universal&p=4697709&viewfull=1#post4697709

You, more than not, have a lo-o-o-ng wait.

 

[heir]

God tells the Calvinists to proclaim the gospel to all, even to those that will never believe. The general call is the call to 'all', your kind of 'all'. The only kind of 'all' you know. The other 'all' is the 'all' you don't understand. If you don't understand then you only fit in one class of 'all', your kind of 'all'.

In other words, it's all about you. You teach meism. You dont ask, you demand salvation with a threat

That's odd. I can't recall the last time I heard or saw in type a "Calvinist" preaching the gospel of Christ as the power of God to save.

 

[Danoh]

God tells the Calvinists to proclaim the gospel to all, even to those that will never believe. The general call is the call to 'all', your kind of 'all'. The only kind of 'all' you know. The other 'all' is the 'all' you don't understand. If you don't understand then you only fit in one class of 'all', your kind of 'all'.

In other words, it's all about you. You teach meism. You dont ask, you demand salvation with a threat

Ah, yes, put on a blindfold, spin around three times, and then poceed to stumble about attempting to pin the tail on the chosen donkey, of course :chuckle:

 

[Nang]

Still waiting for your response going way back.
http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...ot-universal&p=4697709&viewfull=1#post4697709

". . That absolute predestination does not set aside, nor render superfluous, the use of preaching, exhortation, etc., we prove from the examples of Christ Himself, and His Apostles, who all taught and insisted upon the article of predestination, and yet took every opportunity of preaching to sinners and enforced their ministry with proper rebukes, invitations, and exhortations as occasion required. Though they showed unanswerably that salvation is the free gift of God and lies entirely at His sovereign disposal, that men can of themselves do nothing spiritually good, and it is God who of His own pleasure works in them both to will and to do, yet they did not neglect to address their auditors as beings possessed of reason and conscience, nor omitted to remind them of their duties as such; but showed them their sin and danger by nature, and laid before them the appointed way and method of salvation as exhibited in the Gospel." Jerome Zanchius

 

[Cross Reference]

". . That absolute predestination does not set aside, nor render superfluous, the use of preaching, exhortation, etc., we prove from the examples of Christ Himself, and His Apostles, who all taught and insisted upon the article of predestination, and yet took every opportunity of preaching to sinners and enforced their ministry with proper rebukes, invitations, and exhortations as occasion required. Though they showed unanswerably that salvation is the free gift of God and lies entirely at His sovereign disposal, that men can of themselves do nothing spiritually good, and it is God who of His own pleasure works in them both to will and to do, yet they did not neglect to address their auditors as beings possessed of reason and conscience, nor omitted to remind them of their duties as such; but showed them their sin and danger by nature, and laid before them the appointed way and method of salvation as exhibited in the Gospel." Jerome Zanchius

But nothing should ever be recieved from anyone who is not born Again or, that matter, from one who doesn't know whether or not he or she is saved, right?

OMT: You keep referring to the sovernreignty of God from a non-knowledge that from His sovereignty He chose you. Really?

 

[Sonnet]

God tells the Calvinists to proclaim the gospel to all, even to those that will never believe.

Ok, let's see you do it then.

The general call is the call to 'all', your kind of 'all'. The only kind of 'all' you know. The other 'all' is the 'all' you don't understand. If you don't understand then you only fit in one class of 'all', your kind of 'all'.

Baffling.

In other words, it's all about you. You teach meism. You dont ask, you demand salvation with a threat

Show me where I do that.

 

[Sonnet]

That's odd. I can't recall the last time I heard or saw in type a "Calvinist" preaching the gospel of Christ as the power of God to save.

True.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

TB, appears to be a wee bit incoherent in his postings?

 

[Nang]

But nothing should ever be recieved from anyone who is not born Again or, that matter, from one who doesn't know whether or not he or she is saved, right?

It is the message (Gospel) that has the power to save; not the messengers.

 

[Nang]

That's odd. I can't recall the last time I heard or saw in type a "Calvinist" preaching the gospel of Christ as the power of God to save.

Do you know many "Calvinists?"

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

That's odd. I can't recall the last time I heard or saw in type a "Calvinist" preaching the gospel of Christ as the power of God to save.

I'm certain they don't preach their 'heretical' false doctrines to the unsaved. How do the "Reformed folk" know the difference between the Elect and the non-Elect anyway?

 

[Sonnet]

". . That absolute predestination does not set aside, nor render superfluous, the use of preaching, exhortation, etc., we prove from the examples of Christ Himself, and His Apostles, who all taught and insisted upon the article of predestination,

Nope.
Foreknowledge.

and yet took every opportunity of preaching to sinners and enforced their ministry with proper rebukes, invitations, and exhortations as occasion required. Though they showed unanswerably that salvation is the free gift of God and lies entirely at His sovereign disposal, that men can of themselves do nothing spiritually good, and it is God who of His own pleasure works in them both to will and to do, yet they did not neglect to address their auditors as beings possessed of reason and conscience, nor omitted to remind them of their duties as such; but showed them their sin and danger by nature, and laid before them the appointed way and method of salvation as exhibited in the Gospel." Jerome Zanchius

And yet you still won't do it! You use a form of words that does not invalidate your doctrine.

What does this mean: "Whether, then, it is I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed"?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Why would the "Reformed folk" waste their precious time on the non-Elect?"

 

[Sonnet]

Do you know many "Calvinists?"

Ok, let's see you do so then.

 

[Sonnet]

So far not one Calvinist has proclaimed the Gospel Paul outlines in his Corinthian letter.
Not one.

 

[Nang]

I'm certain they don't preach their 'heretical' false doctrines to the unsaved. How do the "Reformed folk" know the difference between the Elect and the non-Elect anyway?

I am Reformed and I have testified in this thread, that I proclaim the Gospel indiscriminately to all, and then leave it up to God as to who He might bestow His saving grace . . for I have no idea who is elect or not, or who is non-elect today, but might be regenerate to new spiritual life tomorrow.

Did you read the above testimony of Zanchius, who reminds us that Jesus Christ preached Truth to all within hearing, and He DID know who would believe or not.

The Gospel is a two-edged sword; it either blesses with salvation, or it condemns unbelief. It either saves the soul or judges the soul.