God says that He is not a Trinity

[beameup]

Isaiah 48:16 New International Version(NIV)

16 “Come near me and listen to this:
“From the first announcement I have not spoken in secret;
at the time it happens, I am there.”
And now the Sovereign Lord has sent me,
endowed with his Spirit.

Better check the Hebrew, you have a faulty translation.
Here is directly from the Dead Sea Scroll of Isaiah:
Draw near to me, hear this:
from the beginning I have not spoken in secret,
from the time it came to be I have been there.”
And now the Lord YHWH has sent me, and his Spirit.
"me" is eternal
"me" preexisted

 

[oatmeal]

God says that He is not a Trinity or any multiple.

Isaiah 45:6
so that from the rising of the sun to the place of its setting people may know there is none besides me. I am Yahwah, and there is no other.


It is unfortunate that people will not even believe God. No other, is no other person. You can not say that if you are a trinity or a multiple.



There is no other

Indeed, and he warns of that in other places in scripture as well.

Deuteronomy 6:4 being one of many

However, let me say that the pronouns God uses in Isaiah 45:6 are clearly referring to a single entity not to multiple persons or beings.

"there is none beside ME"

"I am Yahwah"

As many times as God refers to himself as "I" or "me" in scripture, it is clear that verses like Genesis 1:26 as an exception to be learned to understood in the light of all the places where HE refers to Himself in the singular.. As soon as the next verse, Genesis 1:27, God goes to referring to himself in the singular.

Although trinitarians use that verse to support their theology, they do not show how they get three of that verse or any other specific number.

As often as God uses figures of speech in His word, and here in Genesis 1, it is necessary that we look at Genesis 1:26 as one of those places where God uses a figure of speech to emphasize a truth He is sharing.

Knowing the figure of speech heterosis of number, or as some call it here, the majestic plural or plural of intensity, it is a simple and straightforward conclusion that God is emphasizing the grandness or greatness of what He, not they, are about to do, that is to make man in God's image.

So God created man in HIS own image, in the image of God created HE him, male and female create HE them.

Trinitarians like to use I Thessalonians 5:23 to support their theory, ie, God, being a three part being, God create man a three part being. Interestingly, and more specifically, if the image of God is Father and Son and Holy Spirit, the trinitarians fail to explain how a man or a woman resembles Father, Son and Holy Spirit and why there is no such resemblance, given that man was created in God's image.

Where is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit clearly depicted in Adam and Eve or any of their progeny?

It is clear that of body and soul and spirit, and of Father and Son and Holy Spirit, we have one, but only one image of the other. That is spirit and Holy Spirit. But how will they explain how either the Father or Son is body or how the Father or son is soul? God is spirit, John 4:24, Is body now spirit?

That God is not a trinity is self evident. Granted there are some verses that we have to dig deeper to find how they fit with the hundreds of clear verses, but the work is worth it for God's word does contradict itself.

God is one, if God meant, three in one, He would have said so in genuine scripture.

He means HE, I means I, God is One Lord, not one of three.

God is holy and God is spirit, John 4:23, true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth.

Is is the Father who, having called himself by many names in the OT, chooses to be know as the Holy Spirit, also.

 

[oatmeal]

What do you call someone who has all power in heaven and earth.

Who gave him that power and why did he have to be given that power? Why didn't he have it already?

 

[oatmeal]

Come ye near unto ME, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent ME. - Isaiah 48:16

Who is the second "me" of your verse?

It is not the Lord, for the Lord and his Spirit is doing the sending. If the trinity is truth, then the son, ie, the Lord and the Holy Spirit is accounted for. This leaves only the Father that was sent. I thought God sent his only begotten son? John 3:16.

Of course, since Isaiah is writing this down is a participant in these proceedings, Isaiah is a possibility for indeed, God did sent Isaiah, "Whom shall I send?" Isaiah replied, "Send me" so God did.

We need to learn to follow the scriptures carefully in order to rightly divide it

I John 4:13 tells us that God gave to us of his spirit. Thus spirit of God is something that He can give away.

 

[oatmeal]

So what do we call an immortal person who has all power in heaven and earth?

Who is immortal? Jesus died, he was not immortal when he died.

Of whom are you speaking?

The reason Jesus Christ is alive is because God raised him from the dead and thus he became immortal

 

[oatmeal]

God never says that He is "not a trinity".
God only says that He is "one" (totally united).

Do you really want to use that premise and conclusion?

God never says He is "not a frog" therefore He must be a frog?

Surely, scripture warrants a more thorough examination and study.

 

[beameup]

Who is the second "me" of your verse?

There is no "second me".
There is but ONE speaking in the entire verse.

His message is: come to me and listen to what I say to you
Are you listening?

 

[jamie]

The Anointed Son of God.

And a son is the same kind of being as his father.

 

[jamie]

Who gave him that power and why did he have to be given that power? Why didn't he have it already?

The Most High gave him that power. Christ became mortal, died and was resurrected as the Son of the Highest.

Like Father, like Son.

Why do you believe the Most High is not capable of reproduction?

Jesus Christ is not flesh and blood (his life is not in his blood) and he is above the angels.

Who besides God is above the angels?

 

[CherubRam]

Better check the Hebrew, you have a faulty translation.
Here is directly from the Dead Sea Scroll of Isaiah:
Draw near to me, hear this:
from the beginning I have not spoken in secret,
from the time it came to be I have been there.”
And now the Lord YHWH has sent me, and his Spirit.
"me" is eternal
"me" preexisted

I re-checked the translation and stand by what I said.

 

[CherubRam]

Royal or Majestic “we” in Hebrew

The "Let us" in Genesis1:26, can be easily explained by the following example:

I see a group of children sitting and I tell them, "Let us play soccer!"

It is I who did the talking to an audience.

And Genesis 1:27 clarifies immediately by saying, "And God created man in His image"

Thus, it is still Yahwah who is Elohiym, who created man.

The majestic plural, also called the royal plural, is the use of a plural word, such as the pronoun we or us, to refer to a single person. The majestic plural emphasizes a member of royalty, referring to himself, saying, “We” instead of “I.”

The ancient Hebrews used the majestic plural, and some examples are found in the Old Testament. But the construction is not unique to Hebrew language alone.

The reason for the majestic plural is to indicate greatness, power, and prestige. It is normally reserved for use by nobles, kings, popes, and other persons of high rank when speaking in an official capacity.

In the Bible, we find four verses in which God refers to Himself using plural pronouns. The most well-known passage is Genesis 1:26: “Then God said, ‘Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness.’” See also Genesis 3:22; Genesis 11:7; and Isaiah 6:8. The One God is speaking of Himself in plural form, us and our. This is a perfect example of the majestic plural. God’s divine greatness is emphasized by use of pronouns.

 

[jamie]

Who is immortal? Jesus died, he was not immortal when he died.

There is more to the story than he died. Jesus did die, but he recovered nicely and is now immortal.

 

[CherubRam]

The Most High gave him that power. Christ became mortal, died and was resurrected as the Son of the Highest.

Like Father, like Son.

Why do you believe the Most High is not capable of reproduction?

Jesus Christ is not flesh and blood (his life is not in his blood) and he is above the angels.

Who besides God is above the angels?

Angels are a Pagan myth. The correct translation is "Messenger." Christ was born in the flesh. God does not procreate.

 

[CherubRam]

Trinitarianism in Judaism is a sin punishable by death. Trinitarianism has never been a belief in Judaism. Trinitarianism was introduced into Christianity by Gnostic Pagans.


Joshua 22:22
“The One Mighty God, Yahwah! The One Mighty God, Yahwah! He knows! And let Israel know! If this has been in rebellion or disobedience to Yahwah, do not spare us this day.

Psalm 50:1
A psalm of Asaph. The One Mighty God, Yahwah, speaks and summons the earth from the rising of the sun to where it sets.

Malachi 2:10
Do we not all have one Father ? Did not one God create us? Why do we profane the covenant of our ancestors by being unfaithful to one another?

Malachi 2:15
Has not the one God made you? You belong to him in body and spirit. And what does the one God seek? Godly offspring. So be on your guard, and do not be unfaithful to the wife of your youth.

Romans 3:30
since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith.

1 Corinthians 8:6
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Messiah Yashua, for whom all things came and through whom we live.

Ephesians 4:6
one God and Father of all, who is over all, and through all, and in all.

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Messiah Yahshua,…

James 2:19
You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

 

[beameup]

I re-checked the translation and stand by what I said.

There are examples of a dialog between two members of YHWH, but this is not one of them.
And God said, Let us make man in our image - Genesis 1:26a

 

[jamie]

God does not procreate.

So how is he our Father and why do you believe God cannot produce children?

 

[CherubRam]

So how is he our Father and why do you believe God cannot produce children?

He can if He wanted to. God creates, He does not procreate.

[FONT=&quot]A Body You Have Prepared For Me.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Psalm 40 commentary.
N.I.V. foot note for [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Psalms 40:6[/FONT][FONT=&quot] reads:[/FONT][FONT=&quot] “Hebrew; Septuagint: but a body you have prepared for me. (See also Symmachus and Theodotion)” End of quote. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Symmachus the Ebonite was a late 2nd century author of one of the Greek versions of the Old Testament.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

Theodotion 200 A.D.
Theodotion was a Jewish scholar, perhaps working in Ephesus, who translated the Hebrew Bible into Greek. Whether he was revising the Septuagint, or was working from Hebrew manuscripts that represented a parallel tradition that has not survived, and is debated. His finished version, which filled some lacunae in the Septuagint version of the Book of Jeremiah and Book of Job, formed one column in Origen's Hexapla. (The Hexapla presented six Hebrew and Greek texts side-by-side: two Greek versions, by Aquila of Sinope and Symmachus, preceding the Septuagint, and Theodotian's version following it, apparently reflecting a contemporary understanding of their historical sequence.

Theodotion's translation was so widely copied in the Early Christian church, that it superseded the Septuagint Book of Daniel. Jerome, in his preface to Daniel records the rejection of the Septuagint version in Christian usage, asserting that its translation was very faulty.

Although Theodotion was Anti-Christ, it may not have occurred to him to change the Hebrew Psalm script from reading: “But a body you have prepared for me.” In [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Hebrews 10:5[/FONT][FONT=&quot] the verse is also repeated. “Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said: "Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me;”…

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]1 Peter 3:18[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit.

Orthodox Jews claim that He (God) would not father a child upon a human woman. So, the idea of Christ being a human, fathered by the Holy Spirit is not 'impossible', it would just prove God to be a liar. If the lineage goes through Mary, it does not count because tribal lineage only goes through the father, while national lineage only goes through the mother. If it goes through Joseph, it does not count, because Joseph was not his father.


I would like to state that Christians never claimed that God procreated through Mary, but that He (God) created a body in the linage of David. I do not think that that linage ruling was in effect at the time of Christ birth.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]2 John 1:7[/FONT][FONT=&quot].[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Yahshua Messiah as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]1 John 2:22[/FONT][FONT=&quot].[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Yahshua is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist—he denies the Father and the Son. 23. No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.
24. See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. 25. And this is what he even promised us—eternal life.
26. I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. 27. As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The Masoretes Version[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Psalms 40:6[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. Sacrifice and offering you did not desire,
but my ears you have pierced;[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
burnt offerings and sin offerings
you did not require.
7. Then I said, "Here I am, I have come—
it is written about me in the scroll.


If those who are the Anti-Christ deny that the Messiah would come in bodily form, then it is very likely for them to have changed the Hebrew text of [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Psalms 40:6[/FONT][FONT=&quot] to read:[/FONT][FONT=&quot] “but my ears you have pierced”…[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Long before the Christian era the scripture read: "a body you have prepared for me." The Masoretes Version is a late entry into the bible.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

 

[oatmeal]

There is no "second me".
There is but ONE speaking in the entire verse.

His message is: come to me and listen to what I say to you
Are you listening?

From your post:

Come ye near unto ME, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent ME. - Isaiah 48:16

How many "ME" do you see?

I see two.

The fifth word is "ME" and the last word is "ME"

As for that matter could you address the rest of my post?

Since "the Lord" and the Spirit is accounted for, there remains only the Father that could have been sent.

Yet, God sent his son, God did not send the Father, God did not send himself.

Did God "they" send God "they"?

Could you please tell us what that verse is telling you?

 

[oatmeal]

The Most High gave him that power. Christ became mortal, died and was resurrected as the Son of the Highest.

Like Father, like Son.

Why do you believe the Most High is not capable of reproduction?

Jesus Christ is not flesh and blood (his life is not in his blood) and he is above the angels.

Who besides God is above the angels?

So since Jesus is mortal a man, he is no longer God, that is, if your theory is correct.

He was the son of the highest from his conception and birth. He is a man that was divinely conceived.

Like Father, like son?

Could you come up with examples from scripture where that did not happen?

I can. Adam did not murder anyone, but his first son did.

Solomon did a pretty good job following God for a time, but his son was garbage.

Sons are not always like their father.

They could be, but not necessarily.

Jesus Christ chose to honor his Father and mother.

Just like anyone can choose to do so.

God is not only capable of having his son Jesus Christ, but is likewise capable of causing us to be born again not of corruptible seed, but incorruptible, I Peter 1:23, we are as much sons of God as Jesus Christ.

There are differences though, Jesus was physically conceived and born the son of God, we are spiritually conceived and born again, "born from above" sons of God.

We were conceived sons of God by seed and Jesus Christ was divinely conceived the son of God by seed as well

Jesus Christ is not flesh and blood (his life is not in his blood) and he is above the angels.

Really? You have any scripture to support that?

He was raised up out of his brethren just like Moses foretold.

Deuteronomy 18:15,18

The Lord thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;

I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

Acts 3:22

22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.

He was a lamb chosen out from the flock. He is the perfect lamb, the lamb of God.

Exodus 12:5 Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take it out from the sheep, or from the goats:

Where does it say in scripture that being above the angels is proof that anyone is God?

 

[KingdomRose]

What do you call someone who has all power in heaven and earth.

Where did Jesus GET the power? Jehovah GAVE it to him. He is the Source of all power and authority. If Jehovah didn't GIVE Jesus the power, Jesus would not have it.