Another, "Other" that's all we need!
ECT God never predestines anyone to hell.
- Thread starter Cross Reference
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Another, "Other" that's all we need!
So, you don't think there was a snowball's chance for an Ishmaelite, who God blessed, to be one of the "other sheep" Jesus mentioned to be brought into His fold? When one appreciates Esau was the father of the Edomites, then I might split a hair with you on that notion. Esau, father of the Edomites, took to wife Mahalath, a daughter of Ishmael in Genesis 28:9 KJV. According to Deuteronomy 23:7 KJV, Deuteronomy 23:8 KJV, Deuteronomy 23:9 KJV, Ishmael's descendants via his 'daughter' Mahalath did receive conditional entry into the congregation of the Lord. So, sure, CR... the Ishmaelites are among the "other sheep" who were not of this fold as Jesus mentioned.
I suggest reconsidering Jesus' words:
Matthew 23:29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, KJV "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! Because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchers of the righteous, 30) And said, IF we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets, 31) Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets. 32) Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers. 33) Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? 34) Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them ye shall scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: 35) That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel... 36) Verily I say unto you ("ye serpents, ye generation of vipers"), All these things shall come upon this generation ("of vipers")."
Sounds like a job for the Holy Spirit, don't you think? Many cannot fathom a connection between Genesis 4:24 KJV, and Cain's punishment while knowing Cain was guilty as sin. But, folk cannot proffer God's righteousness dealing with Cain? Granted the flood leveled the playing field, so to speak... but, what became of Cain? Like you say, CR, speculation...
kayaker
Cross Reference
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Yes. All speculation. Not enough info for us to even offer an opinion.
I would say, move on to what matters, that we might "proffer" someone to Christ.
I have no real worth but humanism teaches that man as he is in nature is a moral giant and of infinite worth. Arminianism teaches the same thing
Word based mystic
New member
i think puppet has every person pegged into some group or another. All those groups are hell bound except for his very tiny sliver of truth group.
no matter what a person professes, believes and has fruits of the spirit, they are hell bound unless they believe his pet doctrinal views.
condescension and judgement is a common theme for those who sit in the seat of moses and rely on their knowledge/understanding for salvation.
no matter what a person professes, believes and has fruits of the spirit, they are hell bound unless they believe his pet doctrinal views.
condescension and judgement is a common theme for those who sit in the seat of moses and rely on their knowledge/understanding for salvation.
All speculation, CR? Maybe not enough for you to offer an opinion, and I totally accept the fact that you cannot render Cain's punishment. Then, by your account, Cain got off scot-free. Where's God's righteousness in dealing with Cain's transgression? Cain was a cold-blooded, premeditating murderer and liar, cursed by Almighty God; and you cannot fathom Cain's punishment in Genesis? Do you gather Lamech's endeavor in Genesis 4:23 KJV to just be some random event? What lesson do you render from a descendant of Cain snuffing some random dude? And, THAT is what's called pure speculation, CR. Associating Lamech's account in Genesis 4:23 KJV with the final disposition of his beloved, and relatively young great...grandfather Cain, is an opinion, not speculation.
Certainly we "proffer" others to Christ, CR. Wouldn't you think an Ishmaelite would fall into the category of candidates? See... Christians are busy 'converting' one another into various sects of Christianity. Jesus wasn't a Pentecostal, Catholic, Methodist, LDS... So, I don't blame Islam for rebuking Christianity listening to such millstone scenarios. God opened a door of the Ishmaelites in Deuteronomy 23:7 KJV, Deuteronomy 23:8 KJV, Deuteronomy 23:9 KJV. Paul knew who the Gentiles were from the get go, unlike the various and sundry Christian denominations and churches! So, what 'meat' do you think Jesus implied when He told Peter to feed His sheep, 'others' included! Maybe this meat was clarity in the OT, CR.
kayaker
Cross Reference
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Whatever keeps your interest in God, makes me happy. . .
It makes God happy too, CR! Your faith is indeed far greater than mine, CR...
Peace to you, friend!
kayaker
Cross Reference
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Just for the record, God doesn't predestine folk to hell. However, a father certainly can... Cain broke parole siring a son and building a city. That was not part of God's deal in Genesis 4:15 KJV. Consequently, Lamech, the "sevenfold" generation counting from Satan is generation #1, Cain generation #2, Enoch #3... (Genesis 3:15 KJV, Genesis 4:15, 4:16, 17, 18)... Lamech being the "sevenfold" generation from Satan carried out God's "sevenfold" execution of his beloved, and relatively young great...grandfather Cain in Genesis 4:23 KJV. Furthermore, Lamech prophesied the arrival generation of our Messiah being "seventy and sevenfold" generations in Genesis 4:24 KJV counting from God is generation #1, Adam generation #2, Seth #3... and so forth found in Luke 3:38-23. Speculation? Opinion? Maybe simply coincidental!
kayaker
kayaker
oatmeal
Well-known member
I am not sure how you think I was trying to hijack your thread.
Seems to me, all I did is provided scriptures that support your OP.
If that is a problem, why?
God has ordained that the rest of humanity should be allowed to go their own way, which is the way of sin, to ultimate eternal punishment.
Cross Reference
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... And an unjust decree makes God an unjust god.
beloved57
Well-known member
Blasphemy against God and His ways !
Cross Reference
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Exactly! Therefore, He never arbitrarilly decrees who gets saved and who doesn't, does He? He never decrees when there is hope for that one. His decree in this is, time.
Cross Reference
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You must mean "mercy".
God is not a free agent as you have Him to be but One bound by His own self-imposed "Attributes" etched in stone for our understanding of Him. Why not name and explain them to see your error?
WonderfulLordJesus
New member
Acts 10
34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
John 3
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
John 3
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.