God: "Let Us Make Man In Our Image"

[daqq]

No wonder! There is no such name!

It is not merely one sacred name but a group which are typically called Nomina Sacra by modern scholarship, such as Ι̅H, and Κ̅Ε Κ̅Ε, for starters: and they are written that way for most excellent reasons. Prove your love and find out why, and what they are, and what they mean, otherwise you do not know the Father and His Word. Simple as that.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

It is not merely one sacred name but a group which are typically called Nomina Sacra by modern scholarship, such as Ι̅H, and Κ̅Ε Κ̅Ε, for starters: and they are written that way for most excellent reasons. Prove your love and find out why, and what they are, and what they mean, otherwise you do not know the Father and His Word. Simple as that.

Since you think that you know so much about the Greek names for God then give me that name which is a plural noun and is constantly joined with verbs and adjectives in the singular.

 

[daqq]

Since you think that you know so much about the Greek names for God then give me that name which is a plural noun and is constantly joined with verbs and adjectives in the singular.

You are assuming too much: it was not me who insisted that Elohim is "one of the names of God", no, that was you. You need to actually define what you mean when you say "God" because, as already explained, you and I very likely do not understand the meaning(s) of the word elohim in the same way. Without you telling me I can only assume that you mean "God Almighty", when you say "God", but you have not actually told me that is the case. Also the fact that Elohim is so often joined with singular verbs and adjectives does not bode well for what you believe either, (but there are limited cases where ha-Elohim is very likely, "the Angels", because in that case Elohim with the article, "ha-Elohim", is not a name, (also as already explained)).

 

[freelight]

Liberal indeed......

Liberal indeed......

Sure! Flexible in every sense EXCEPT for the idea that the Lord Jesus is God and on that you are rigid and closed minded.

My liberality includes even a Trinitarian view (because cosmic consciousness includes all), but is not LIMITED to it - as shared before I choose to expound a Christology that is more Unitarian in relational-nuance, and in my studies of all the Christology thus far engaged, do not see Jesus diminished or disenfranchised by this in anyway, since biblical Unitarians worship Jesus with just as much honor as as some Trinitarians might, but in a way that does not need to see Jesus as God Almighty, because a 'Son' is never his 'Father'. If one chooses an orthodox Trinitarian view, such is a matter of personal preference, traditional assumption, personal belief and scriptural interpretation. One's 'Christology' is not set in stone,...as one can change their views within any one given religious tradition, as well as totally change religious traditions altogether. Some things are subject to change.

As far as our Christological discussions so far,....my commentary holds, unless I've expanded or modified any particulars. Its liberal enough to include a Trinitarian view, but doesn't have to in order for God to be God. Jesus still is all that Jesus is in actuality or potentiality, as the Son of Man & Son of God. His humanity and divinity are what they are as well, even if some views are nearer to truth, or if some are distorted or imperfect, while some assumptions may be sheer speculation.

God is the one absolute reality, the eternal/infinite essence, the original source-energy and LIFE of all that is, the Universal Father of all things and beings. This is the Original God-Source, the Father of all. 'All' means 'all'. The Son is by origination and generation...ever subordinate to God the Father...and this takes nothing from the Son, but glorifies his name and divine inheritance. Jesus is still Lord, Messiah and Savior (in their proper respects) still. What gets me is the apologetics going on to defend a traditional-orthodox Christology, per a particular definition of Jesus divinity, as if Jesus loses something significant to his credit if such a view by definition is not believed. Jesus is still Jesus, and his native Jewish faith-tradition is fundamentally Unitarian.

The key is accepting/believing/receiving Jesus as the one God sent, his anointed Messiah-Son, and that by believing in the God that sent him (our Father-God), and God's testimony about his Son, one can have life into the ages, the promise of soul-survival, resurrection and immortality....this is what is primary to what is taught in the NT. The belief that Jesus is 'God' can be assumed or defined in so many ways (among Trinitarians, modalists, whatevers)....as well as Unitarians, because Jesus is certainly qualifies to be 'God' (elohim) as well, since he is the Messenger, Evangel, Prophet, Agent sent by God, representing 'God'. All sons of God (either angels or mortals) in their respective roles of divine authority and service can be called 'elohim'.

Since I see 'God' as the source, essence, life and reality behind all forms and personalities, the idea or concept that Jesus is 'God' is acceptable, but such is a matter of understanding what we mean by that, literally, figuratively and contextually.

 

[intojoy]

Ah yes.. zero light at it again..


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

 

[Jerry Shugart]

You are assuming too much: it was not me who insisted that Elohim is "one of the names of God", no, that was you. You need to actually define what you mean when you say "God" because, as already explained, you and I very likely do not understand the meaning(s) of the word elohim in the same way.

So which "God" is being referred to in these verses?

"And God ('elohiym) said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness... So God ('elohiym) created man in his own image" (Gen.1:26,27).​

Do you think that this God is God Almighty or another God?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

...biblical Unitarians worship Jesus with just as much honor as as some Trinitarians might, but in a way that does not need to see Jesus as God Almighty...

Give me a break!

The Lord Jesus said this about how we are to honor Him:

"That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him" (Jn.5:23).​

Biblical Trinitarians honor the Lord Jesus as God. Since you do not then you are not honoring Him as you do the Father. Therefore, you are honoring neither!

No matter how much double-talk you might employ to justify your beliefs it does not change the fact that you do not honor the Lord Jesus as you do the Father.

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

John 10:34
Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are "gods"'?

Genesis 2:7
Then the LORD God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

 

[daqq]

So which "God" is being referred to in these verses?

"And God ('elohiym) said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness... So God ('elohiym) created man in his own image" (Gen.1:26,27).​

Do you think that this God is God Almighty or another God?

You tell me: is it the same from Exodus 21:6, 22:8-9, and John 1:1?

 

[freelight]

Only 'God' is 'God'....incorporeal, timeless, infinite, omnipresent, transcendent....

Only 'God' is 'God'....incorporeal, timeless, infinite, omnipresent, transcendent....

Give me a break!

The Lord Jesus said this about how we are to honor Him:

"That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him" (Jn.5:23).​

We've been over this before.

Brother Kel also treats this here.

A Unitarian can surely honor Jesus as he does the Father, because Jesus was SENT by the Father, representing and speaking for the Father. Of course we honor Jesus. A Trinitarian prefiguration or superimposition forced into this scenario is unnecessary. Even a view that Jesus is somehow 'God' in the flesh, does not need to be technically imposed here, but we see contextually that all the 'honor' afforded Jesus is BECAUSE He was sent by God, respresents God and speaks for God. Jesus does NOT need to be God himself for any honor being given to him....because Jesus does not teach this exclusively, but states CLEARLY that the Father sent him, and he speaks the Father's words.

Furthermore the verse after the verse you posted above says -

24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Our faith is in the God who sent His Son, the Son whom God the Father gave power and authority to commence and fulfill his mission here on earth, as his Messenger. - not much more needs to be added here, unless of course you want divinitize Jesus in various ways that seem fitting to your 'theology' or 'belief-system',..thats fine,..but do know that your view is NOT the only tenable or logical one that exists, and represents only one particular viewpoint (there are different views of Christology). A Unitarian view is contextually sound, reasonable and true to the text. - if you want to impose a trinitarian overlay into it,...that is your perogative,...but it does not represent the only only way to interpret things, just one format that was eventually developed later as a doctrine of the Church then crystallized into 'dogma' and 'creed'.

So much of this is semantics anyways, as I see a Unitarian view wholly feasible, which properly honors God as God (incorporeal Spirit), and differentiates his Messiah-Son as the person whom he anointed and sent to be his representative. (even the orthodox Trinitarian creed is careful not to confuse the persons within the Godhead). This view honors God as recognizing the all-supreme, incorporeal, infinite DEITY-Father (YHWH), as the Most High God who sent his special and uniquely begotten Son Jesus (subordinate elohim), anointing him with his Spirit, investing him with his logos (the joining of the man Jesus with the 'unction' of the divine Spirit at his baptism), then Jesus going forth to DO the Father's will, to the Father's glory, a glory they share because they are ONE in spirit, will, purpose. The Father and the Son share One VOICE. Again this is a tenable view, among other views out there, but is presented as one way to interpret and comprehend the information given us in scripture. PLUS, it does not violate reason or logic, and is spiritually sound as well. The Spirit bears witness that Jesus came by water and blood, he was a real flesh & blood MAN.

Biblical Trinitarians honor the Lord Jesus as God. Since you do not then you are not honoring Him as you do the Father. Therefore, you are honoring neither!

This is sadly a mistaken view and a misconstrued assumption made by many 'Trinitarians'. Jesus does not need anyone divinitizing him (beyond what he was/is in actuality), or defending such a view, for hes already given his testimony about His Father sending him, and has the sanction of the Spirit on it.

No matter how much double-talk you might employ to justify your beliefs it does not change the fact that you do not honor the Lord Jesus as you do the Father.

God knows our hearts, and He shall judge, and we have His Spirit and Love, as the final witness and testimony of those who know him. Biblical Unitarians DO honor Jesus just as the they honor the Father, they just recognize the Father-God as God and the Son as the Son of God. - we can jump on the hamster wheel of semantics here, and go round and round til dizzy, but thats unnecessary. - you have your freedom to believe as you please, others do as well.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

A Unitarian can surely honor Jesus as he does the Father, because Jesus was SENT by the Father...

More double-talk. If you do not honor the Lord Jesus as God, as you do the Father, then you are honoring neither of them:

"That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him" (Jn.5:23).​

Just because the Father sent Him does not mean that he is not God. He came to do the will of the Father and in order to do that He was made flesh and took on the form of a Servant. However, he is now in the form of God:

"Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7. But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men" (Phil.2:5-6).​

The Greek word translated "form" means "the form by which a person or thing strikes the vision; the external appearance" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).

So when those in heaven will see the ONE on the "Throne of God and of the Lamb" they will see both the Lord Jesus and God at the same time because He is God:

"And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads" (Rev.22:3-4).​

Since the Lord Jesus is in the form of God it is obvious that He is God:

"We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true by being in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life" (1 Jn.5:20).​

 

[Jerry Shugart]

You tell me

He is the Almighty God, the God who is spoken of here:

"The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him" (Zech.12:1).​

The same God spoken of here, the Lord Jesus:

"And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands...But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?" (Heb.1:10,13).​

 

[daqq]

He is the Almighty God, the God who is spoken of here:

"The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him" (Zech.12:1).​

The same God spoken of here, the Lord Jesus:

"And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands...But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?" (Heb.1:10,13).​

Zechariah 12:1 is the Father, YHWH, (the Son is His "Right Arm" with which He stretched forth the heavens and laid the foundation of the earth). And what I referenced concerning your understanding of Elohim you did not respond to, which was again, Exodus 21:6, 22:8-9, where it is clearly the Father speaking, (beginning in Exodus 20:22). But because you have rejected the Testimony of Messiah which has been quoted to you at least ten times now, (even in a thread which is now closed, just so you know what I speak of), you cannot understand the deeper things. The Father judges no one but has committed all judgment to the Son, who is the Seeker and the Judge, (with seven "Judges" like Holy Watchers in his right hand). Likewise if you had read those Exodus passages in the Septuagint you might have also noticed from where Paul gets the judgement-seat of the Elohim, (του θεου). :chuckle:

 

[freelight]

Gen. 1:26 - digging DEEPER.......

Gen. 1:26 - digging DEEPER.......

~*~*~

Concerning the proper interpretation of the "us" in "let us make man in our own image", the best translation would appear to be the 'heavenly council' view, which holds God is speaking from the collective consciousness of himself and his heavenly assembly of divine sons or 'elohim', his angels. Also being true to the intentions of the writer and the cultural-theological context of Genesis, this appears to be the most appropriate and correct interpretation of this and similar passages where God refers to himself as 'us'. Excellent documentation and support for this view is found here (from Hebrew Streams). - highly recommended

Rashi's commentary -

Let us make man: From here we learn the humility of the Holy One, blessed be He. Since man was created in the likeness of the angels, and they would envy him, He consulted them. And when He judges kings, He consults with His Heavenly household, for so we find regarding Ahab, that Micah said to him, (I Kings 22:19): “I saw the Lord seated on His throne, and all the host of heaven were standing by Him, on His right and on His left.” Now do “left” or “right” apply to Him ?! But rather, [the passage means that] these [angels] were standing on the right to defend, and these [angels] were standing on the left to prosecute. Likewise, (Dan. 4:14): “By the decree of the destructive angels is the matter, and by the word of the holy ones is the edict.” Here too, He took counsel with His heavenly household. He said to them, “Among the heavenly beings, there are some in My likeness. If there are none in My likeness among the earthly beings, there will be envy among the creatures of the Creation. ” - [from Tanchuma, Shemoth 18; Gen. Rabbah 8:11, 14:13]

Let us make man: Even though they [the angels] did not assist Him in His creation, and there is an opportunity for the heretics to rebel (to misconstrue the plural as a basis for their heresies), Scripture did not hesitate to teach proper conduct and the trait of humility, that a great person should consult with and receive permission from a smaller one. Had it been written: “I shall make man,” we would not have learned that He was speaking with His tribunal, but to Himself. And the refutation to the heretics is written alongside it [i. e., in the following verse:]“And God created (וַיִּבְרָא) ,” and it does not say,“and they created וַיִּבְרְאוּ.” - [from Gen. Rabbah 8:9]

~*~*~

Another view is that God was speaking to the elements of 'earth' and 'heaven',...since man's soul is composed of both matter and spirit, so the 'us' creating man includes a composition of elements. God here speaks as the whole of creation, its elemental parts and substances as coming together to create. - however the 'heavenly council' or 'angelic assembly' view seems more fitting if God was including sentient beings in 'audience' of his will.


~*~*~

Did Somebody Find the Trinity in the First Chapter of the Bible? To Whom Was God Speaking to When He Said, "Let Us Make Man in Our Image"? (2 articles, one with some commentary by trinitarian bible commentators)

Brother Kel below expounds on different interpretations of Gen.1:26, plus expands on the theme of Wisdom, a kind of cohort of God before and during creation. - another possible referential.

Also Brother Kel's commentary here. (as noted in his video-lecture above he expounds more on 'Wisdom' (Sophia), as being with God from the beginning, who is also a type of 'Christ' in some ways, but the correlaries are to be interpreted according to particular terms and contexts. - what is shown is that many different interpretations besides a Trinitarian one of Gen. 1:26 are more logical and appropriate to the total context involved.)

:thumb:

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Zechariah 12:1 is the Father, YHWH, (the Son is His "Right Arm" with which He stretched forth the heavens and laid the foundation of the earth).

I answered your question so answer mine. earlier I said:

So which "God" is being referred to in these verses?

"And God ('elohiym) said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness... So God ('elohiym) created man in his own image" (Gen.1:26,27).​

 

[daqq]

I answered your question so answer mine. earlier I said:

So which "God" is being referred to in these verses?

"And God ('elohiym) said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness... So God ('elohiym) created man in his own image" (Gen.1:26,27).​

I have already answered that many times from the scripture:

John 1:1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the Elohim, and the Word was Elohim.

John 1:18a
18a No man has seen [εωρακεν] Elohim at any time:

1 John 4:12a
12a No man has beheld [τεθεαται] Elohim at any time:

 

[daqq]

I have already answered that many times from the scripture:

John 1:1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the Elohim, and the Word was Elohim.

John 1:18a
18a No man has seen [εωρακεν] Elohim at any time:

1 John 4:12a
12a No man has beheld [τεθεαται] Elohim at any time:

Now look at what happens with one of the previously referenced Exodus passages when you simply transliterate ha-Elohim and Elohim as written, (with or without the article wherever and however it is written in the text).

Exodus 22:8-9
8 If the thief be not found; then the master of the house shall be brought unto ha-Elohim, to see whether he has put his hand unto his neighbor's goods.
9 For all manner of trespass, whether it be for ox, for donkey, for sheep, for raiment, or for any manner of lost thing, which another challenges to be his, the cause of both parties shall come before ha-Elohim: and whom Elohim shall condemn, the same shall pay double unto his neighbor.

The Father judges no one|nothing, (ουδενα), but has committed all judgment unto the Son

 

[S-word]

More double-talk. If you do not honor the Lord Jesus as God, as you do the Father, then you are honoring neither of them:

"That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him" (Jn.5:23).​

Just because the Father sent Him does not mean that he is not God. He came to do the will of the Father and in order to do that He was made flesh and took on the form of a Servant. However, he is now in the form of God:

"Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7. But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men" (Phil.2:5-6).​

The Greek word translated "form" means "the form by which a person or thing strikes the vision; the external appearance" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).

So when those in heaven will see the ONE on the "Throne of God and of the Lamb" they will see both the Lord Jesus and God at the same time because He is God:

"And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads" (Rev.22:3-4).​

Since the Lord Jesus is in the form of God it is obvious that He is God:

"We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true by being in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life" (1 Jn.5:20).​

Hebrews 10:5-7New International Version (NIV) *Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said: “Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me; with burnt offerings and sin offerings you were not pleased. Then I said, ‘Here I am—it is written about me in the scroll— I have come to do your will, my God.’”

The body that God had chosen for his Anointed successor, in which earthly host body he revealed himself to the world, was the body of the man Jesus. Which body, the heavenly anointed one (The Christ) filled with his spirit, that descended upon Jesus in the form of a dove, as the heavenly voice was heard to say; “You are my son (My chosen successor) THIS DAY I have begotten thee.”

Hebrews 5:7-10 King James Version (KJV) In reference to the man Jesus: Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared. Though he were “A” Son, (Not THE Son, or God’s son, But A Son.) yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; and being made perfect, (In his obedience to the spirit of the Lord with which he had been filled) he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; and God declared him to be High Priest in the order of Melchizedek.

Hebrew, 5: 5; In the same way, Jesus did not take upon himself the honour od being a high priest. Instead, God said to him; “You are my Son, TODAY I have become your Father,” Or “THIS DAY I have begotten thee.”

JERRY SHUGART WROTE………So when those in heaven will see the ONE on the "Throne of God and of the Lamb" they will see both the Lord Jesus and God at the same time because He is God:

S-word responds…………John 20: 17; Jesus says to Mary Magdalene; “Go to my brothers and tell them that I am ascending to him who is My Father and their Father, my God and their God.”

Revelation 3: 21; To those who win the victory I will give them the right to sit beside me on my throne, Just as I have been victorious and now sit beside my Father (Who is their Father also) on his throne.

So, according to you Jerry; “When those in heaven will see all those who have been victorious as was their brother Jesus, on the "Throne of God" they will see the Lord Jesus and all his brothers and God at the same time because they are all God.”

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Hebrews 10:5-7New International Version (NIV) *Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said: “Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me; with burnt offerings and sin offerings you were not pleased. Then I said, ‘Here I am—it is written about me in the scroll— I have come to do your will, my God.’”

The body that God had chosen for his Anointed successor, in which earthly host body he revealed himself to the world, was the body of the man Jesus. Which body, the heavenly anointed one (The Christ) filled with his spirit, that descended upon Jesus in the form of a dove, as the heavenly voice was heard to say; “You are my son (My chosen successor) THIS DAY I have begotten thee.”

Hebrews 5:7-10 King James Version (KJV) In reference to the man Jesus: Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared. Though he were “A” Son, (Not THE Son, or God’s son, But A Son.) yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; and being made perfect, (In his obedience to the spirit of the Lord with which he had been filled) he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; and God declared him to be High Priest in the order of Melchizedek.

Hebrew, 5: 5; In the same way, Jesus did not take upon himself the honour od being a high priest. Instead, God said to him; “You are my Son, TODAY I have become your Father,” Or “THIS DAY I have begotten thee.”

JERRY SHUGART WROTE………So when those in heaven will see the ONE on the "Throne of God and of the Lamb" they will see both the Lord Jesus and God at the same time because He is God:

S-word responds…………John 20: 17; Jesus says to Mary Magdalene; “Go to my brothers and tell them that I am ascending to him who is My Father and their Father, my God and their God.”

Revelation 3: 21; To those who win the victory I will give them the right to sit beside me on my throne, Just as I have been victorious and now sit beside my Father (Who is their Father also) on his throne.

So, according to you Jerry; “When those in heaven will see all those who have been victorious as was their brother Jesus, on the "Throne of God" they will see the Lord Jesus and all his brothers and God at the same time because they are all God.”

S-word...

If you were shown your error in scripture... would you acknowledge it?

 

[daqq]

So, according to you Jerry; “When those in heaven will see all those who have been victorious as was their brother Jesus, on the "Throne of God" they will see the Lord Jesus and all his brothers and God at the same time because they are all God.”

Yep, that is precisely what the mainstream "God-Man" dogma does; whether people are willing to acknowledge that error in their reasoning or not. They do the same thing with the "I and my Father are one" statement, by making that statement into a claim to "Almighty God status", because Messiah prays the exact same for us later on in the very same Gospel account, (which has already been quoted and explained way too many times to Jerry and others here for it to be necessary again; but if you are headed there good for you). Jerry and Evil already know these things, and yet their particular brand of "Jesus is YHWH" dogma makes the end result even worse and more blasphemous than what the mainstream teaches and believes. When I brought this up in one of Jerry's other threads, to Evil.Eye., Evil freely and openly admitted that, yes, "YHWH is his brother", (saying because "He is humble" in some ridiculous profane sacrilegious statement about the Almighty Creator our Father). When you bring up these blatant contradictions, such as , "Hey, doesn't that mean that God Almighty was killed by His own creation? And how did He raise Himself if He was truly dead? Do you not understand the meaning of dead? Does that make any sense to you at all? And doesn't the scripture say this or that, (with scripture quotes of course)", what you generally get in response from them is easily paraphrased as follows, "You just don't beleeeeve like I do because you have no faith, haven't accepted Jesus into your heart, and don't have the Holy Spirit dwelling in you like I do! You are of your father the devil, Satan and his minions; you're an Arian, a JW, an SDA, a Mormon, a Gnostic, a cultist, a cult leader, and whatever else I can use to hopefully shut you up and cast you out of the club for not believing me!" :chuckle:

Originally Posted by daqq

What else can be said to one who by default claims that YHWH is his brother?
You make yourself equal with the Father who is YHWH Elohim Almighty.

Again....

Easily addressed! He is our most intimate relationship!

You fall flat on your face at Revelation 21:22

YHWH is our God who entered the Flesh of His creation, through Spiritual means of His design and is His only Son and our Son.

He is our Brother.

He is not a God of Pride! His crown is Humility!

You just proved that God walked amongst us! Who but God could declare all humans his relatives?

You are so mighty at so many duels... but you miss the deepest Revelation of Love in scripture!

PS - It is also very telling that AMR, Lon, and so many other supposed staunch Trinitarians and Reformers are willing to join hands and sing Kumbayah to this kind of thing.