God is Jesus vs. Jesus is God

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God's Truth

God's Truth

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Right Divider said:
Obedience comes after salvation.

Eph 2:7-10 (AKJV/PCE)​
(2:7) That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in [his] kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. (2:8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: (2:9) Not of works, lest any man should boast. (2:10) For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

​
Gal 3:1-14 (AKJV/PCE)​
(3:1) O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? (3:2) This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? (3:3) Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? (3:4) Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if [it be] yet in vain. (3:5) He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, [doeth he it] by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? (3:6) Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. (3:7) Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. (3:8) And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, [saying], In thee shall all nations be blessed. (3:9) So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham. (3:10) For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. (3:11) But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, [it is] evident: for, The just shall live by faith. (3:12) And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. (3:13) Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that hangeth on a tree: (3:14) That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. ​
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We have to obey to get saved:


Luke 6:46 "Why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?

Matthew 7:21 Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

James 2:26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.


I obeyed in God and Jesus my whole life; but I did not get saved until I started obeying Jesus.
 
Right Divider

Right Divider

Body part
God's Truth said:
We have to obey to get saved:

Luke 6:46 "Why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?

Matthew 7:21 Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

James 2:26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.
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ALWAYS BACK TO THE CIRCUMCISION APOSTLES!!!

Get with what God is doing NOW!!!

God's Truth said:
I obeyed in God and Jesus my whole life; but I did not get saved until I started obeying Jesus.
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Seek immediate psychiatric help.
 
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2003cobra

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God's Truth said:
I don't think that is a fair and accurate comparison.

'God' is singular. It would be better to keep that in mind when looking for similarities in the English language.

How about:

God is good.

Good is God.

The topic of the thread is just a play on the English language.

It doesn't really make or break the fact that there is only one God and He is the Father, and Jesus is God the Father come as a Son.
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That is a switch from a noun to an adjective, so I think your suggested pairing is flawed.

Isn’t Elohim, one of the names of God, plural?
 
Bright Raven

Bright Raven

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2003cobra said:
Have you thought about that statement?

Could you provide some scriptural evidence to support it?

I find the idea that humans can understand the nature of God Almighty more hubris than truth.
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Colossians 1:25-27 King James Version (KJV)

25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
 
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2003cobra

New member
Bright Raven said:
Colossians 1:25-27 King James Version (KJV)

25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
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Which mystery do you think this is referring to?

It sounds like the revelation that Christ is in Gentiles.

If you think this claims that
Jesus can't dwell in those who do not know His nature.
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then you are imagining.

The text you quoted does not support your statement.

Do you have anything else to support your claim? This passage did not do it.
 
Nihilo

Nihilo

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Banned
drbrumley said:
Is Jesus of the New Testament THE Jehovah of the Old Testament?
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He is. He is the Son. Jehovah is the Trinity; the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

I think Paul deliberately gave the Corinthian church a triplicate blessing in 2nd Corinthians 13:14 KJV like the blessing Moses gave Israel in Numbers 6:24-26 KJV.
 
1Mind1Spirit

1Mind1Spirit

Literal lunatic
2003cobra said:
Which mystery do you think this is referring to?

It sounds like the revelation that Christ is in Gentiles
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It can't mean only them as the verse says it was already manifest in the saints.
I would dare put forth that this refers to those beginning at Jerusalem who were in Christ before Paul.
Some of which as well as Paul went to the Gentiles.



If you think this claims that

then you are imagining.

The text you quoted does not support your statement.

Do you have anything else to support your claim? This passage did not do it.
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Does Christ dwell in one before he baptizes them with fire and the Holy Spirit?
 
Tambora

Tambora

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God's Truth said:
The trins here say that the Father is not Spirit He is a Person and the Holy Spirit is His Spirit and separate Person.

I understand now how you all don't know each other and your doctrine at all.

I think you all just start making things up as you go along. Your own doctrine does state it is not understandable.

If it is not understandable it it not defendable.
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I thought you said you wanted to debate, GT?????
Going off topic AGAIN is not debating what I presented to you.
You have been given clear and precise scripture showing that the Father and the Son do indeed interact with each other as 2 distinct persons, and that they have been doing so all along.

Why do you constantly keep avoiding the debate on those scriptures, GT, and always trying to steer the debate in another direction?????
Debate like an adult, GT, and stop with your childish antics of avoiding and distracting.

John 17
(5) And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.


A distinct person, the Father, interacts with another distinct person, the Son.
 
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2003cobra

New member
1Mind1Spirit said:
It can't mean only them as the verse says it was already manifest in the saints.
I would dare put forth that this refers to those beginning at Jerusalem who were in Christ before Paul.
Some of which as well as Paul went to the Gentiles.
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I agree. The plans to open the kingdom to the Gentiles was hidden, was a mystery, until the end of Jesus’s ministry on earth.

My point was that the passage does not support BR’s claim: Jesus can't dwell in those who do not know His nature.
BR has postulated a specific understanding of the nature of Jesus before the indwelling of Jesus (or, I suppose, he may technically mean the indwelling of the Holy Spirit).


Does Christ dwell in one before he baptizes them with fire and the Holy Spirit?
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How would you define baptism by fire and the Holy Spirit? Do you see those as two separate events or actions?
 
Tambora

Tambora

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2003cobra said:
Back to original post, I was trying to think of a parallel set of sentences.

What about:
A pear is a fruit
vs.
A fruit is a pear.

Compared to
Jesus is God
vs.
God is Jesus.

Is anyone uncomfortable with either:
A pear is a fruit
Or
A fruit is a pear.
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Both those statements, in the simplicity in how they are stated, can be answered "yes".

If someone were to misinterpret your "yes" beyond what your intent of your "yes" is, then that can be cleared up with further discussion.
In other words, if someone thinks your answer meant that only a pear can be a fruit, then that is a misrepresentation they have mistakenly concluded from your answer.
Clarification can be done if that mistaken conclusion arises, but your answer is still correct.

It's akin to that old question of "Have you beat your wife lately?"
The answer is "no".
That answer could mean that it has only been lately that you have not beat your wife, or it could mean that you have never beater your wife.
Which means there is a right conclusion and wrong conclusion that one could imagine.
And further discussion on it in more detail will reveal that, but your answer was correct no matter which conclusion (the right or the wrong one) one arrives at.
 
1Mind1Spirit

1Mind1Spirit

Literal lunatic
2003cobra said:
I agree. The plans to open the kingdom to the Gentiles was hidden, was a mystery, until the end of Jesus’s ministry on earth.
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That is only half the mystery.

The rest was Christ in you.


My point was that the passage does not support BR’s claim: Jesus can't dwell in those who do not know His nature.
BR has postulated a specific understanding of the nature of Jesus before the indwelling of Jesus (or, I suppose, he may technically mean the indwelling of the Holy Spirit).
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That passage could relate to that when you see the full import of what Paul is saying about the mystery.


How would you define baptism by fire and the Holy Spirit? Do you see those as two separate events or actions?
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The reason I asked was in hopes that you or BR could shed some light on that in answering my query.
 
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