I only know this after the fact because I’ve become a believer. But according to scripture I was elected before I knew it, before I was saved.
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ECT God decides who does or doesn't believe.
- Thread starter preacherman57
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I only know this after the fact because I’ve become a believer. But according to scripture I was elected before I knew it, before I was saved.
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glorydaz
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Those who have not committed sin. They are always counted with the righteous.
Exodus 23:7
Keep thee far from a false matter; and the innocent and righteous slay thou not: for I will not justify the wicked.
Psalm 106:38 And shed innocent blood, even the blood of their sons and of their daughters, whom they sacrificed unto the idols of Canaan: and the land was polluted with blood.
Matthew 27:4 Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that.
Keep thee far from a false matter; and the innocent and righteous slay thou not: for I will not justify the wicked.
Psalm 106:38 And shed innocent blood, even the blood of their sons and of their daughters, whom they sacrificed unto the idols of Canaan: and the land was polluted with blood.
Matthew 27:4 Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Jesus is the Elect ONE. Isaiah 42:1 The plan from the beginning was that He would have a body of believers. Those who believe are those IN HIM.
Eph. 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Titus 1:1-3 Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness; In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began; But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour;
Titus 1:1-3 Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness; In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began; But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour;
glorydaz
Well-known member
Yeah, you are. :chuckle:
Actually, praying for another is meant to focus the person doing the praying on things like compassion for those for whom they are praying.
It is meant to work those kinds of things in the person praying.
Which is why Paul is ever demonstrating that the heart of the person doing the praying is the issue when praying for others.
Some examples...
Romans 1:9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;
Romans 10:1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
Romans 12:12 Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer;
Romans 15:30 Now I beseech you, brethren, for the Lord Jesus Christ's sake, and for the love of the Spirit, that ye strive together with me in your prayers to God for me;
2 Corinthians 1:11 Ye also helping together by prayer for us, that for the gift bestowed upon us by the means of many persons thanks may be given by many on our behalf.
Paul well knew...
Philippians 4:19 But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.
Thus, it is one's heart, during whatever one might be praying about on behalf of another, that is important to God.
It is a given that He "would have all men to be saved" - whether or not we are praying for that or not.
Thus, His part in the equation is a given, with or without us.
Always was. Always has been. Always will be.
For "God commended His love toward us, in that WHILE WE WERE YET sinners, CHRIST died FOR us."
It is not our help He needs. Rather, it is the kind of heart He desires to see in us during prayer.
1 Timothy 2:8 I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.
And in a way, prayer is aactually a 24-7-365 heart attitude.
Romans 12:12 Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer; 12:13 Distributing to the necessity of saints; given to hospitality. 12:14 Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not. 12:15 Rejoice with them that do rejoice, and weep with them that weep.
And so on...
1 Thessalonians 1:3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;
1 Thessalonians 5:17 Pray without ceasing.
And that right there reveals what is actually what to one about their actual heart for others.
Rom. 5:6-8.
Same focus- what is our actual heart.
Case in point...
2 Corinthians 5:13 For whether we be beside ourselves, it is to God: or whether we be sober, it is for your cause. 5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 5:15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again. 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
As is the Father's heart - His is Rom. 5:6-8 - in each our stead.
How do you know that you are one of "the elect," "saved?" And saved(to be delivered/preserved from a danger) from what? If you are one of "the elect," you were never in any danger. If you were already "elect," before you "believed," why would you need to believe?
Watch the spin, as Clavinists/Calvinists cannot give us a straight answer. That is their MO.
The elect are not saved until they come to faith. That’s what I was taught. There is no scripture evidence that teaches the elect were always saved. Paul claimed that we are seated in heavenly places but I think he meant he is so sure of the completion of our salvation that we are seen that way.
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Catch that bit of nonsense, TOL audience?
If they are "elect," by definition, they have no need to be saved, "delivered/preserved" from a danger, as they are already "elect," which, from the (perverted) Calvinist view, thus chosen as God's children, adopted, and "faith" is quite irrelevant.
So, just whom do you think you are talking to on this board? Your Uncle Joe, whoosamovin' kinda slow?
This is a prime example of the "logic," "reasoning," of these idiot Calvinists.
Catch that demonic "logic?" You are "elect," but you may not be "saved," until you come to faith, which makes the definition of "elect" mute, irrelevant, nonsensical, and God is an idiot, like all you Calvinists.
Define "elect." Do be a dear.
Spurgeon further asserted, “God from the beginning chose His people; when the unnavigated ether was yet unfanned by the wing of a single angel, when space was shoreless, or else unborn, when universal silence reigned, and not a voice or whisper shocked the solemnity of silence, when there was no being, and no motion, no time, and naught but God Himself, alone in His eternity.” In eternity past, God sovereignly set His affections on a particular people and predestined their salvation. Moreover, sovereign election, Spurgeon affirmed, was based not on divine foresight but on divine foreordination: “‘But,’ say others, ‘God elected them on the foresight of their faith.’ Now, God gives faith, therefore He could not have elected them on account of faith which He foresaw.”
The Westminster Confession of Faith (1646), one of the most important documents in the history of Protestantism, puts it this way:
By the decree of God, for the manifestation of his glory, some men and angels are predestined unto everlasting life, and others foreordained to everlasting death. These angels and men, thus predestined and foreordained, are particularly and unchangeably designed; and their number is so certain and definite, that it cannot be either increased or diminished.
Those of mankind that are predestined unto life, God, before the foundation of the world was laid, according to his eternal and immutable purpose, and the secret counsel and good pleasure of his will, hath chosen in Christ unto everlasting glory, out of his mere free grace and love, without any foresight of faith or good works, or perseverance in either of them, or any other thing in the creature, as conditions, or causes moving him thereunto; and all to the praise of his glorious grace (Section III. Of God's Eternal Decree).
Sonny, the problem is, Calvinists are not 'logically minded.'
Is there a question here? I don’t care much for Charlie
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I think you’re purposefully ignoring the moderate Calvinist position because you’re unable to deal with it unless you bundle it up with hyper Calvinist doctrine. You’re showing weakness.
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