Give me biblical support for Christmas.

[Town Heretic]

You said His birth was the act that began our redemption...then said something else later when corrected

I understand that you're trying to make as fine a point as you can in order to wave a flag at it, but the act of his birth was a beginning of the life of Christ that led to the offering of grace. You should quote me anyway, for the context. You might as well be saying that our redemption is timeless since it begins with God, but all you do is water the point of language to attempt a point that doesn't alter the argument.

the celebration of the cross does ignore creation as the Sabbath which celebrates it is replaced by a celebration of the cross...

Then you're doing it wrong.

The cross however does not replace the prior law as both He and His followers kept it the following day...the Sabbath

I never said replaced. I said fulfilled.

because your Yuletide holidaze originates with it...not the earlier church and certainly not in scripture

Find a priest and argue about the oldest church.

your ascribing value to a day it's celebration not asked of you but prohibited means exactly you devalue what He wishes for you...

Except it isn't prohibited.

seriously you are "bringin in da sin" when all I did was show the moral superiority of others who saw defilement and fled from it...

You mean people like you. Your crowd. And I don't agree with you.

bold in Him declaring the message of repentance to those loathe to see it...

The LOLs really underscore that...or, you're wrong.

yup nothing defiles an already defiled heart...

Thanks, I should have said wrong and smug.

of course we fail...is why after being forgiven we Eve and I would rather flee next time and go and sin no more than be near anything that might compromise us...certainly not repeat that which we rationalized as "ther is no sin" into "I sin not"

There is no sin in all sorts of things and where there is not sin the doing is not sin and you sin not. Trying to make that general enough to be alarming is just hooey on your part and a bit deceptive.

as His people are...hating what He hates not baptising demon's houses...

lain: So, lacking a rational rebuttal on the illustration of your assimilation problem you're reduced to that.

funny how I always have to look up to the pretty talkers with boastful words

Rather, worth noting that you go out of your way (twice now) to degrade the value of a thing. Adding boast to it doesn't really alter the error in it or cover what that usually notes in a person. And no one said you had to "look up" to well executed rhetoric. The absence of condemnation isn't the presence of praise any more than the absence of command notes the presence of prohibition. But I can see how you get there, considering your tendency.

...His truth I attempt to speak with stuttering tongue lays waste the pharoahs not in line with Him

No, that's not proud at all, is it. lain:

not my fault these fruits of arguing from silence grows...it remains simple either for or against...either as He did or not at all...as for me and my house we will serve the Lord...His way

Same pride problem and I bet you had vaccinations that Jesus never had. I bet you've run into all sorts of unique situations and had to apply your principles to them in the absence of example.

I'm going to sum for the sake of time I don't have to waste today: you believe you know exactly what God wants and demands and precisely what He doesn't, with scripture or in its silences, and anyone who doesn't agree with you on any particular point, is wrong and lesser.

And I think you're half rational on a good day and lazy on a bad one.

discerning error and hidden faults is not a result of biology or its memory loss

You presented the psalm and I noted an answer. I'll make this particular argument easier: name a sin you do without knowing it.

Noted once and never again did even the heavens point to Bethlehem again

So some things become sin if you do them twice? lain:

...if my inspired argument is condemning it is of Him His rightness His way...not my own I seek to enforce

Back to the humility clause then. Scripture speaks for Him. You at best speak of Him. When you confuse those you err and invite sin (along with looking like a grade-A, hostile doofus who thinks he's the Pope...a thing you detest in anyone else.

...gratitude compels my obedience to His way as naturally as I obey natural laws to breath fresh air and drink clean water...I am as you might say addicted...a slave to all that which is good...and better...His Way...go and sin no more

Are you meek and humble then? Or do you forgive your manner by ascribing the bold to it? I'm not saying I do a good job of that either, but I haven't elected myself Pope either, so...

call it tough love brother...you remind me of those countless friends and loved ones who I hold up from stumbling

That's proud enough, don't you think. Countless people you hold up in their error because of your...clarity?

it is a sin in my house as mine is dedicated to pleasing Him...HIS WAY

I don't believe that anyone is confused on whether or not you believe the distinction between you and anyone who differs is your righteousness and pure desire. You've been pretty clear on the point prior.

sadly our time together has made me sense (in error) you don't respect meekness or those who are not bold courageous even if wrong...

I'd have to have a chance to respond to a thing I haven't seen in you, so that's some observation on your part.

oh and the improbability of the error in Christendom is only decreased as you begin to clear your vision and see the work the devil has done to deceive the world...by its individuals...

Well, thank goodness you're better than the rest, clearer of eye and mind, so you can save most of Christendom from the horrible error of...a different exegesis.

Have you a ring?

Narrow is the path its gate...few that walk...

Narrower still is the mind that confuses that scripture with personal infallibility in its application.

I admit getting your attention was badly done...lol...and apologize to Him first for squandering a potential chance and to you...perhaps too zealous for His law...in which I delight and merely wish for others...

See, it's nearly impossible to reconcile that with just about everything that proceeded it, including much of this post. Were I to credit that spirit and understanding I think you'd have had to amend practice to some extent...at least in this document.

Again I pray you see as He sees...

Same here.

Pray for me that I love as He did...

My prayer is a bit simpler. I want you, me and everyone to experience grace, gratitude, and a prosperous walk with Him, wherever He leads you.

You didn't ask what I would have to answer...until then there is Yah His Son Yahushua and the Holy Spirit...

Silence does answer...and is an answer...some fill it and most with error...

Either Jesus is God or He isn't. A yes is a yes and a no is a no. It's not complicated.

 

[Town Heretic]

Yes, you did that with her like you are doing it with clefty. I know you will not stop unless clefty stops.

I actually stop and let people go on much more often than you think. But if someone brings a disagreement to me I answer it so long as I feel I should. I'd hope that's true of anyone. For instance, I've just had my last on the topic with Clefty. I don't believe there's anything else for me to say.

You'll probably compliment him for wearing me down again, but that will just be your grudge telling you to work on it some more.

Jerusha was defending me because it is wrong to judge another Christian as heretic.

No, she had a bee in her bonnet because we disagreed on something else to the point where her temper was engaged. Then she did what you did when you pretended to be jumping in here for Clefty, when it was really about you and your wounded pride. A thing you let slip a few posts in.

Jesus says not to judge.

Not exactly. Quote Him.

You disregard too many of Jesus' word

I don't believe that's true or that you'll make the case, but I understand you believe it to be so.

Many, many trinity believers do that. Pride is not of Jesus.

Pride is man's natural inclination. It's a thing we all war with, meshak. Or don't you see it in yourself?

 

[meshak]

i do too


do you believe you can earn your way into His flock by striving not to sin?

following His teachings requires godly works. He says His followers are light of the world.

We cannot be light of the world if we behave like the world.

If we don't strive not to sin we will not be light of the world.

So it is a grave sin to disregard His word. And if we disregard His word, we will not inherit His kingdom.

it is that simple, friend.

 

[ok doser]

doser asks a simple question:

do you believe you can earn your way into His flock by striving not to sin?

meshak doesn't answer it:

following His teachings requires godly works. He says His followers are light of the world.

We cannot be light of the world if we behave like the world.

If we don't strive not to sin we will not be light of the world.

So it is a grave sin to disregard His word. And if we disregard His word, we will not inherit His kingdom.

it is that simple, friend.

yes or no: do you believe you can earn your way into His flock by striving not to sin?

 

[meshak]

doser asks a simple question:

meshak doesn't answer it:

Faith without deeds is dead. So Yes, we will perish if we are only lip servers.

Dead faith cannot save you, friend.





yes or no: do you believe you can earn your way into His flock by striving not to sin?[/QUOTE]

 

[ok doser]

yes or no: do you believe you can earn your way into His flock by striving not to sin?

Yes

fascinating

 

[meshak]

fascinating

thank you

 

[meshak]

Here it is TH:


Matthew 7:1
"Judge not lest you be judged,"

 

[Town Heretic]

Here it is TH:

Matthew 7:1
"Judge not lest you be judged,"

I'm familiar with the verse. You should share that with your friend Clefty, who has poured judgment over his writing like a Southern woman applies mayo to potato salad. Or maybe you should apply it to your own narrative of condemning mainstream Christians. I think you swallow rules readily, like Clefty, but leave them there too often half digested.

But looking beyond myself to serious treatments of this verse in particular.

Elliots Commentary in parts:

"The question, how far we can obey the precept, is not without its difficulties. Must we not, even as a matter of duty, be judging others every day of our lives? The juryman giving his verdict, the master who discharges a dishonest servant, the bishop who puts in force the discipline of the Church—are these acting against our Lord’s commands? And if not, where are we to draw the line?

The answer to these questions is not found in the distinctions of a formal casuistry. We have rather to remember that our Lord here, as elsewhere, gives principles rather than rules, and embodies the principle in a rule which, because it cannot be kept in the letter, forces us back upon the spirit.

What is forbidden is the censorious judging temper, eager to find faults and condemn men for them, suspicious of motives, detecting, let us say, for example, in controversy, and denouncing, the faintest shade of heresy.

No mere rules can guide us as to the limits of our judgments. What we need is to have “our senses exercised to discern between good and evil,” to cultivate the sensitiveness of conscience and the clearness of self-knowledge.

Briefly, we may say:—(1.) Judge no man unless it be a duty to do so. (2.) As far as may be, judge the offence, and not the offender. (3.) Confine your judgment to the earthly side of faults, and leave their relation to God, to Him who sees the heart. (4.) Never judge at all without remembering your own sinfulness, and the ignorance and infirmities which may extenuate the sinfulness of others."

Henry adds:

"We must judge ourselves, and judge of our own acts, but not make our word a law to everybody. We must not judge rashly, nor pass judgment upon our brother without any ground. We must not make the worst of people. Here is a just reproof to those who quarrel with their brethren for small faults, while they allow themselves in greater ones."

Bengel's nomen:

Matthew 7:1. Μὴ κρίνετε, Judge not) i.e. without knowledge, charity, or necessity. Yet a dog is to be accounted a dog, and a swine a swine; see Matthew 7:6.

I think it is important to know who Christ is, how he can offer a thing reserved to God alone. Will a misapprehension on the point act as a bar to salvation? Can someone believe what Christ said about forgiveness and receive grace while misapprehending or being ignorant of what he meant when he said "I and the Father are one"? The more I consider it, the more I am compelled to plead ignorance and hope on the point, leaving it as with all things in His hands, but for those of us who can know and willfully resist? Worse, for those who can know, resist and by that resistance lead others into a stunted understanding of their benefactor...there I have less patience.

 

[Aner]

Lets just say I am someone you met in a store. You announced your a believer in God. I asked you if Christmas was biblical, you said yes. I then asked you to show me that biblical support, because I myself have never seen any.

So, show me.

There is none. As a follower of the Lord Jesus Christ - I totally reject the holiday or celebration of Christ-Mass having anything to do with the Kingdom of God. HOWEVER, I have a great time connecting with my family - a completely separate matter.

 

[6days]

There is none. As a follower of the Lord Jesus Christ - I totally reject the holiday or celebration of Christ-Mass having anything to do with the Kingdom of God. HOWEVER, I have a great time connecting with my family - a completely separate matter.

Great! Celebrate Jesus. Celebrate salvation. Celebrate with yourfamily. And, try not be judgemental of othets who celebrate differently from your traditions.

 

[clefty]

I'm familiar with the verse. You should share that with your friend Clefty, who has poured judgment over his writing like a Southern woman applies mayo to potato salad. Or maybe you should apply it to your own narrative of condemning mainstream Christians. I think you swallow rules readily, like Clefty, but leave them there too often half digested.

But looking beyond myself to serious treatments of this verse in particular.

Elliots Commentary in parts:

"The question, how far we can obey the precept, is not without its difficulties. Must we not, even as a matter of duty, be judging others every day of our lives? The juryman giving his verdict, the master who discharges a dishonest servant, the bishop who puts in force the discipline of the Church—are these acting against our Lord’s commands? And if not, where are we to draw the line?

The answer to these questions is not found in the distinctions of a formal casuistry. We have rather to remember that our Lord here, as elsewhere, gives principles rather than rules, and embodies the principle in a rule which, because it cannot be kept in the letter, forces us back upon the spirit.

What is forbidden is the censorious judging temper, eager to find faults and condemn men for them, suspicious of motives, detecting, let us say, for example, in controversy, and denouncing, the faintest shade of heresy.

No mere rules can guide us as to the limits of our judgments. What we need is to have “our senses exercised to discern between good and evil,” to cultivate the sensitiveness of conscience and the clearness of self-knowledge.

Briefly, we may say:—(1.) Judge no man unless it be a duty to do so. (2.) As far as may be, judge the offence, and not the offender. (3.) Confine your judgment to the earthly side of faults, and leave their relation to God, to Him who sees the heart. (4.) Never judge at all without remembering your own sinfulness, and the ignorance and infirmities which may extenuate the sinfulness of others."

Henry adds:

"We must judge ourselves, and judge of our own acts, but not make our word a law to everybody. We must not judge rashly, nor pass judgment upon our brother without any ground. We must not make the worst of people. Here is a just reproof to those who quarrel with their brethren for small faults, while they allow themselves in greater ones."

Bengel's nomen:

Matthew 7:1. [FONT=&]Μὴ κρίνετε[/FONT], Judge not) i.e. without knowledge, charity, or necessity. Yet a dog is to be accounted a dog, and a swine a swine; see Matthew 7:6.

I think it is important to know who Christ is, how he can offer a thing reserved to God alone. Will a misapprehension on the point act as a bar to salvation? Can someone believe what Christ said about forgiveness and receive grace while misapprehending or being ignorant of what he meant when he said "I and the Father are one"? The more I consider it, the more I am compelled to plead ignorance and hope on the point, leaving it as with all things in His hands, but for those of us who can know and willfully resist? Worse, for those who can know, resist and by that resistance lead others into a stunted understanding of their benefactor...there I have less patience.

LoL...lots of words for "lest ye be judged"

Being judged?...I don't mind...just let scripture be our guide...

"Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life?"

Let no man judge you...but the body of Christ"

There's more...but that's a good start...

Unlike Cain's line...we are after all our brother's keeper...

 

[Town Heretic]

LoL...

Should be reserved for the diaries of fifteen year old girls.

lots of words for "lest ye be judged"

There's a lot to consider, if consideration is in your wheelhouse.

Being judged?...I don't mind...just let scripture be our guide...

And I'm guessing you get to decide how and when that's applied. lain: Kidding, I'm not guessing.

 

[clefty]

Should be reserved for the diaries of fifteen year old girls.


There's a lot to consider, if consideration is in your wheelhouse.


And I'm guessing you get to decide how and when that's applied. lain: Kidding, I'm not guessing.

See you are having a good time already...

And I don't decide or apply anything....this is only a a innernutz forum...however every post is eternal...and could cause another to stumble to fall...

now Paul's message of keeping from causing offense is more than ever relevant and valid...you may never know or meet those reading here...but every post is eternal...sobering..."forgive them for they do not know what they do" should come to mind...

 

[meshak]

I'm familiar with the verse. You should share that with your friend Clefty, who has poured judgment over his writing like a Southern woman applies mayo to potato salad. Or maybe you should apply it to your own narrative of condemning mainstream Christians. I think you swallow rules readily, like Clefty, but leave them there too often half digested.

You don't seem to what "judgment" is.

Judgment is telling someone you are not saved or cult or non-believers.

You don't seem to know Christianity 101.

That's what happens when you don't know Jesus and His teachings.

Clefty does not tell anyone you are not saved or non-believer but many of you do.

 

[clefty]

There is none. As a follower of the Lord Jesus Christ - I totally reject the holiday or celebration of Christ-Mass having anything to do with the Kingdom of God. HOWEVER, I have a great time connecting with my family - a completely separate matter.

Is this why?


Christmas was not among the earliest festivals of the Church (Martindale C. Transcribed by Susanti A. Suastika. Christmas. The Catholic Encyclopedia, Volume III. Copyright © 1908 by Robert Appleton Company. Online Edition Copyright © 2003 by K. Knight. Nihil Obstat, November 1, 1908. Remy Lafort, S.T.D., Censor. Imprimatur. +John Cardinal Farley, Archbishop of New York).


http://www.cogwriter.com/christmas.htm

 

[Town Heretic]

You don't seem to what "judgment" is.
Judgment is telling someone you are not saved or cult or non-believers.

That would be one example, to be sure. I've spoken to my own understanding and hope, along with offering commentaries on the identity of Christ and the scripture you presented.

Here's another example of judgement, but one that isn't offered with any apparent hope or particular explanation:

You don't seem to know Christianity 101.
That's what happens when you don't know Jesus and His teachings.

You can feel the love radiating from it.

Clefty does not tell anyone you are not saved or non-believer but many of you do.

So that's your litmus? He can call Christians adulterers and liars, but so long as he doesn't call them heretics (which he can't rationally) he's peachy?

That's some litmus, meshak. lain:

 

[meshak]

That would be one example, to be sure. I've spoken to my own understanding and hope, along with offering commentaries on the identity of Christ and the scripture you presented.

Here's another example of judgement, but one that isn't offered with any apparent hope or particular explanation:


You can feel the love radiating from it.

So that's your litmus? He can call Christians adulterers and liars, but so long as he doesn't call them heretics (which he can't rationally) he's peachy?

That's some litmus, meshak. lain:

Clefty does not judge like you guys do. You better watch your mouth and deceiving yourselves.

denial will not get you anywhere.

 

[Town Heretic]

Clefty does not judge like you guys do.

I'm not a "you guys". I'm me. And he absolutely does. So do you. It's a lot of what you've had to say to me. It's in a lot of what you say about others.

You better watch your mouth and deceiving yourselves.

Stop sugar coating it.

denial will not get you anywhere.

Thank you for judging me again.

 

[meshak]

I'm not a "you guys". I'm me. And he absolutely does. So do you. It's a lot of what you've had to say to me.

There's that unjudgemental Christian love just pouring out of you. lain:
Thank you for judging me again.

I never call anyone "non-believer" or "cult" or "unsaved".

But you do. That's your spiritual fruit, judgmental. You think so highly of yourselves.

You are judgmental but I don't call you "unsaved". The Judgement day is not here and Jesus will do His job of judging.

Saved or not is not your business, it is Jesus'