Freewill religion is the Man of Sin !

[patrick jane]

it's funny that people think i'm a woman. do i sound that smart ? is that why a couple people don't like me ? i'm a guy, soak it up, drink it in - Will Farell quote - don't ban me please. sometimes i sum things up in a statement of truth with humor. it does hit nerves, i'm not trying to be disruptive. just serious but not too serious, no profanity, respect and mature dialogue. but that never happens, so i only do exactly what the other is person is doing. only better - atrol:

 

[freelight]

grace enables......

grace enables......

I'm wondering, free-will is a bit of a silly concept. If you thin about it, you cannot truly do anything you like. I couldn't snap my fingers and achieve world peace. In fact, this is just as illogical as believing that you cannot truly choose to do anything. Nothing has any value if you are "free" or if you have no control over your life. These are both concepts which have little bearing on the real world.

Ah,...so much depends on how we define 'free will', and what values are derived from such assumptions. A value has appreciation and response,...hence the principle of 'response-ability' is implied in a relationship where love guides and determines one's movement. Love draws,...but is made complete by response (enabled by the ability to respond). Consider that 'ability'.



pj

 

[freelight]

Man is male/female.......so is 'God'.....

Man is male/female.......so is 'God'.....

it's funny that people think i'm a woman. do i sound that smart ? is that why a couple people don't like me ? i'm a guy, soak it up, drink it in - Will Farell quote - don't ban me please. sometimes i sum things up in a statement of truth with humor. it does hit nerves, i'm not trying to be disruptive. just serious but not too serious, no profanity, respect and mature dialogue. but that never happens, so i only do exactly what the other is person is doing. only better - atrol:

I respect women, and the Divine Mother 'God' is both 'Father' and 'Mother', so in this sense worship of Deity in the holistic sense is most perfect. Some have mistaken me for a female, since I'm in tune with my feminine side, of course some assume I'm gay or some mixture of 'queer', but that's another subject, since all I share flows from a spiritual and philosophical base, no matter what elements are affecting whats communicated.



pj

 

[patrick jane]

Ah,...so much depends on how we define 'free will', and what values are derived from such assumptions. A value has appreciation and response,...hence the principle of 'response-ability' is implied in a relationship where love guides and determines one's movement. Love draws,...but is made complete by response (enabled by the ability to respond). Consider that 'ability'.



pj

free wil is demonstrated every second of every day. i didn't have to type this and no Universal Force knew i was going to do it. except God, but the choice is still mine.free will in life today is extremely limited. we are "programmed", taught, raised and surrounded by laws, rules, traditions, customs, what others might think, society, advertising, etc, etc. free will is truly in the mind first. our actions are largely determined by habits and routines on a daily basis, which occurs in thought processes as well. nobody can just do whatever they want. not for long. consequences and judgement keep free will in check. maybe the mind is the ONLY place it can be achieved. too deep for me. i just know for a FACT we all have perhaps, up to hundred or more choices every day. CHOICES. tiny choices, big ones. this is a topic that can be discussed forever, but we all CHOOSE to sin. God knows. that's the point. God wants us ALL back. God wants us to choose Him. you don't have to. God doesn't want robots. someone else used thosed words and i said it's the bane of existance. shoot me. is this still america ? :baby:

 

[beloved57]

pj

free wil is demonstrated every second of every day. i didn't have to type this and no Universal Force knew i was going to do it. except God, but the choice is still mine.

No, it was God's Choice !

 

[freelight]

baby steps......

baby steps......

free wil is demonstrated every second of every day. i didn't have to type this and no Universal Force knew i was going to do it. except God, but the choice is still mine.free will in life today is extremely limited. we are "programmed", taught, raised and surrounded by laws, rules, traditions, customs, what others might think, society, advertising, etc, etc. free will is truly in the mind first. our actions are largely determined by habits and routines on a daily basis, which occurs in thought processes as well. nobody can just do whatever they want. not for long. consequences and judgement keep free will in check. maybe the mind is the ONLY place it can be achieved. too deep for me. i just know for a FACT we all have perhaps, up to hundred or more choices every day. CHOICES. tiny choices, big ones. this is a topic that can be discussed forever, but we all CHOOSE to sin. God knows. that's the point. God wants us ALL back. God wants us to choose Him. you don't have to. God doesn't want robots. someone else used thosed words and i said it's the bane of existance. shoot me. is this still america ? :baby:

One of those fun old English words 'bane' -

For your lynching, I suggest we hold back the bullets (gotta conserve), and just go your first round a good 'tar and feathering' :crackup:


pj

 

[freelight]

the stunning reality at hand......

the stunning reality at hand......

pj



No, it was God's Choice !

And such an assumption can be proved by? In every dynamic moment of existence, within 'consciousness',....there is movement, action/re-action, response, momentum. Life is ever 'be-ing' and 'be-coming',.....Existence is the flow of life. Now as to what 'force', 'power', 'energy' or 'personality' is causing or affecting anything in the world of 'effects' is pretty much "up for grabs". Like grabbing fistfuls of air,...we come up with nothing, but all is still appearing to unfold, in some relational manner, unless all is just an illusion upon which we impose our own 'interpretation'. But then again, what else is there?

And where is 'God' in all this? - besides what we 'assume' or 'describe' as pertains to our own theology?

We go the magic circle around and fall back to 'square 1',....our own SELF (as 'luminous awareness'). This is All There Is. Wonderful eh?



pj

 

[TulipBee]

:
So,....I use the term 'free will' to indicate whatever 'measure' of actual freedom of choice we have, at any moment. Just food for thought, so much for appetizers

I'm more than a robot. I'm a mirror. Try telling your mirrors, they have free will to fly out of the house. I'm just a reflection of the real me on the other side of the universe, a million years from now. There is a real, as in reality, particle that is LOT, LOT, LOT faster than light waves, It might as well be instantaneous.
What will free will do to a reflective me? absolutely nothing!

There is no free will inside simutanous and Calvinism got confirmed .

 

[TulipBee]

One of those fun old English words 'bane' -

For your lynching, I suggest we hold back the bullets (gotta conserve), and just go your first round a good 'tar and feathering' :crackup:


pj

He is shooting imaginary arminian bullets to Calvinists which does absolutely nothing.
Even though Calvinists dodges wasteful blows, the arminian gets knockout every time with original Bible quotes.

 

[beloved57]

Righteousness Imputed without works !

Righteousness Imputed without works !

Rom 4:6

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

6 In the same way, David also pronounces a blessing on the person to whom God credits righteousness apart from actions:CEB

Actions, Acts, Deeds are all works !

6 David said the same thing when he was talking about the blessing people have when God accepts them as good without looking at what they have done:

Its extremely hard to find any that Truly believes, understands and appreciates this nugget treasure of Truth found in the sacred oracles, and what it does really mean to have Righteousness given, imputed, charged unto one without works !

Now most of us, if not all of us do believe that a work is something we physically do with our hands or just in a physical sense, yet though that is True, a Work is defind as such, however what the devil has caused many of us to fail to realize, is that a work is also done in and with the mind, the heart ! In fact, the greek word ergon defines a work thusly :


I.business, employment, that which any one is occupied

A.that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking



II.any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind


III.an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work

You see that ? Any product whatever, accomplished by MIND:

(in a human or other conscious being) the element, part, substance, or process that reasons, thinks, feels, wills, perceives, judges,

Psychology. the totality of conscious and unconscious mental processes and activities.

intellect or understanding, as distinguished from the faculties of feeling and willing; intelligence.

intellectual power or ability.

The greek word for mind nous:

I.the mind, comprising alike the faculties of perceiving and understanding and those of feeling, judging, determining

A.the intellectual faculty, the understanding


B.reason in the narrower sense, as the capacity for spiritual truth, the higher powers of the soul, the faculty of perceiving divine things, of recognising goodness and of hating evil


C.the power of considering and judging soberly, calmly and impartially



II.a particular mode of thinking and judging, i.e thoughts, feelings, purposes, desires

Hence, if we believe and say that our hearing, understanding, and believing something, with our intellectual abilities is the reason why God imputes to us Righteousness [which is Salvation], then we are contrary and opposed to the sacred and blessed Truth here described in Rom 4:6, and we are in fact advocating that God imputes Righteousness based upon and on account of my works, the works of my mind, the accomplishment of my mind ! Paul once wrote that he served with his mind Rom 7:25

I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

So again, if we believe that we are saved and or receive Righteousness imputed to our charge because of our believing, our faith, any action we have done, we forfeit any claim to the Blessedness of Rom 4:6 !

6 This is what David meant when he spoke of the happiness of the person whom God accepts as righteous, apart from anything that person does:GNT

 

[Nanja]

Rom 4:6

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

6 In the same way, David also pronounces a blessing on the person to whom God credits righteousness apart from actions:CEB

Actions, Acts, Deeds are all works !

6 David said the same thing when he was talking about the blessing people have when God accepts them as good without looking at what they have done:

Its extremely hard to find any that Truly believes, understands and appreciates this nugget treasure of Truth found in the sacred oracles, and what it does really mean to have Righteousness given, imputed, charged unto one without works !

Now most of us, if not all of us do believe that a work is something we physically do with our hands or just in a physical sense, yet though that is True, a Work is defind as such, however what the devil has caused many of us to fail to realize, is that a work is also done in and with the mind, the heart ! In fact, the greek word ergon defines a work thusly :


I.business, employment, that which any one is occupied

A.that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking



II.any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind


III.an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work

You see that ? Any product whatever, accomplished by MIND:

(in a human or other conscious being) the element, part, substance, or process that reasons, thinks, feels, wills, perceives, judges,

Psychology. the totality of conscious and unconscious mental processes and activities.

intellect or understanding, as distinguished from the faculties of feeling and willing; intelligence.

intellectual power or ability.

The greek word for mind nous:




Hence, if we believe and say that our hearing, understanding, and believing something, with our intellectual abilities is the reason why God imputes to us Righteousness [which is Salvation], then we are contrary and opposed to the sacred and blessed Truth here described in Rom 4:6, and we are in fact advocating that God imputes Righteousness based upon and on account of my works, the works of my mind, the accomplishment of my mind ! Paul once wrote that he served with his mind Rom 7:25

I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

So again, if we believe that we are saved and or receive Righteousness imputed to our charge because of our believing, our faith, any action we have done, we forfeit any claim to the Blessedness of Rom 4:6 !

6 This is what David meant when he spoke of the happiness of the person whom God accepts as righteous, apart from anything that person does:GNT

Amen, these are truly blessed because, even while they were yet in their sins,
they were made Righteous solely by Christ's Death for them: not by any work
or action of their own: making a decision to follow Him for instance,
an action of the mind: a work.

The Righteousness that Rom. 4:6 speaks of, is what Christ the Lamb
accomplished as the Surety Heb 7:22 for all the Election of Grace, His Sheep:

Is. 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one
to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Because their iniquity was laid upon Christ, His Righteousness was imputed,
or laid to their charge Rom. 5:19 passively, before they ever believe,
repent, or do any other good work. And the proof was Him being risen again.
For when Christ was risen from the dead, His Elect Seed Eph. 1:4-5 were all
made alive together with Him:

Eph 2:5-6 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ,
(by grace ye are saved) (v.6) And hath raised us up together, and made us
sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus.

Heb. 13:20-21 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus,
that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is
wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Christ has made His Sheep perfectly Righteous in Him!

~~~~~

 

[beloved57]

Amen, these are truly blessed because, even while they were yet in their sins,
they were made Righteous solely by Christ's Death for them: not by any work
or action of their own: making a decision to follow Him for instance,
an action of the mind: a work.

The Righteousness that Rom. 4:6 speaks of, is what Christ the Lamb
accomplished as the Surety Heb 7:22 for all the Election of Grace, His Sheep:

Is. 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one
to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Because their iniquity was laid upon Christ, His Righteousness was imputed,
or laid to their charge Rom. 5:19 passively, before they ever believe,
repent, or do any other good work. And the proof was Him being risen again.
For when Christ was risen from the dead, His Elect Seed Eph. 1:4-5 were all
made alive together with Him:

Eph 2:5-6 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ,
(by grace ye are saved) (v.6) And hath raised us up together, and made us
sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus.

Heb. 13:20-21 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus,
that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is
wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Christ has made His Sheep perfectly Righteous in Him!

~~~~~

Amen, for you have summed up these Truths quite succinctly, and Thanks !

 

[beloved57]

You may be teaching Justification by the Law ! 4

You may be teaching Justification by the Law ! 4

I'm going to subtitle this :

Gal 3:10

10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Lets make no mistake about it, anyone claiming to be saved and or Justified before God based upon their faith, or their act of believing, you very well may be under the curse of the Law, simply because, faith whether you believe it or not, is a work of the Law Matt 23:23

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Faith Jesus says to these religionists, is one of the more weightier matters of the Law THAT OUGHT YE HAVE DONE !

John Gill on this verse and the word Faith in this context writes:

"Faith" may not only design faithfulness in a man's keeping his word and promise, and fidelity to a trust reposed in him; but also faith in God, as the God of providence, and as the God of grace and mercy; believing in his word and promises, and worshipping him, which the law requires; and the rather this seems to be intended, because Luke, instead of "faith", puts "the love of God", which faith includes, and works by, and is the end of the commandment, arising from faith unfeigned: so that Christ instances in the weightier matters of both tables of the law, which these men neglected, and the latter, as well as the former; not believing the revelation of the Gospel, nor the Messiah, who was promised, and prophesied of by God, in the writings of the Old Testament:

The Purpose of the Law was to be a Schoolmaster to Faith in Christ, yeah even under the Mosaic Administration Gal 3:24

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

So, now if we believe that our act of Faith in Christ is the reason why God Justified us, we are claiming that God Justified me because I obeyed the Law, did that which I ought to have done !

And once our thinking is there, we fall into the ripe condition of our text Gal 3:10

10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

That means if we are under the impression that by doing Faith, a work of the Law, is the basis why God saved or Justified me, we are then obligated to continue to be in obedience to the Law perfectly, if we are to saved from the penalty of our sins, and one false move to complete obedience to the Law, in act, thoughts, or speech disqualifies us from Eternal Life, and must be Eternally Cursed as these Matt 25:41

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

That word cursed here is the same word in Gal 3:10 ! So they are cursed for not keeping God's Law as they ought to have done ! And so are we if we continue in the thinking that , God Justifies me because of my act of Faith or Believing, which i ought to have done !

 

[Nanja]

I'm going to subtitle this :

Gal 3:10

10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Lets make no mistake about it, anyone claiming to be saved and or Justified before God based upon their faith, or their act of believing, you very well may be under the curse of the Law, simply because, faith whether you believe it or not, is a work of the Law Matt 23:23

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Faith Jesus says to these religionists, is one of the more weightier matters of the Law THAT OUGHT YE HAVE DONE !

John Gill on this verse and the word Faith in this context writes:



The Purpose of the Law was to be a Schoolmaster to Faith in Christ, yeah even under the Mosaic Administration Gal 3:24

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

So, now if we believe that our act of Faith in Christ is the reason why God Justified us, we are claiming that God Justified me because I obeyed the Law, did that which I ought to have done !

And once our thinking is there, we fall into the ripe condition of our text Gal 3:10

10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

That means if we are under the impression that by doing Faith, a work of the Law, is the basis why God saved or Justified me, we are then obligated to continue to be in obedience to the Law perfectly, if we are to saved from the penalty of our sins, and one false move to complete obedience to the Law, in act, thoughts, or speech disqualifies us from Eternal Life, and must be Eternally Cursed as these Matt 25:41

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

That word cursed here is the same word in Gal 3:10 ! So they are cursed for not keeping God's Law as they ought to have done ! And so are we if we continue in the thinking that , God Justifies me because of my act of Faith or Believing, which i ought to have done !

Yes, one is cursed if they consider themselves Righteous because they
did Faith or Believing, which is a work of the Law Mat. 23:23; Jas. 2:10.

The focus must be on Christ being the object of Faith: His Faithfulness
in doing the whole Law of God on behalf of those He died for, His Church.
Him being their Righteousness instead of their own Faith or Believing.
And that Righteousness is revealed to God's Elect through the Gospel
to Faith given them in the New Birth.

If any are interested in understanding the Scriptures regarding
this very important Truth, you may find it helpful to read / study
all 4 parts consecutively: #1456, #1464, #1480, #1513.

~~~~~

 

[beloved57]

Yes, one is cursed if they consider themselves Righteous because they
did Faith or Believing, which is a work of the Law Mat. 23:23; Jas. 2:10.

The focus must be on Christ being the object of Faith: His Faithfulness
in doing the whole Law of God on behalf of those He died for, His Church.
Him being their Righteousness instead of their own Faith or Believing.
And that Righteousness is revealed to God's Elect through the Gospel
to Faith given them in the New Birth.

If any are interested in understanding the Scriptures regarding
this very important Truth, you may find it helpful to read / study
all 4 parts consecutively: #1456, #1464, #1480, #1513.

~~~~~

Praise the Lord !

 

[beloved57]

You may be teaching Justification by the Law ! 5

You may be teaching Justification by the Law ! 5

Gal 3:11

11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Now to those who just insist that they are Justified before God because of their faith, they are saying in fact saying, like it or not, that they are Justified before God by the doing of the Law, by what ought to have been done; You see when it pertains to our own act of faith, it is a work of the Law that ought to have been done Matt 23:23

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

But if Faith be not our own faith that Justified us before God, but rather the Faith/ Faithfulness of Jesus Christ, and that Justification is made known or revealed to our God given Faith, then we avoid Justification before God based upon our work of the Law Faith Gal 3:11 !

And the Just shall live by Faith, it means, the Just or Justified come to believe, that what Christ hath already done in the past for us, by His Death / Blood putting away our sins before God, and that Justifying us before Him, and solely on that basis, then we begin to Live by Faith, BUT that is forfeited if and when we believe that our own act of faith/belief is what Justified us before God, we fall from Grace Faith to Law work Faith, and do claim Justification by the Law, which is contrary to the Truth !

 

[beloved57]

Does believing play a part in Salvation ?

Does believing play a part in Salvation ?

Acts 16:31

And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Paul wrote once 2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Belief of the Truth is a Salvation experience God has chosen the Elect to,His Beloved !

But , here is the question to carefully ponder, are those who believe, saved because they believed, or do they believe because they are / were saved ?

If we agree with the former "saved because they believed" that is Salvation by Works, that is a claim that God saved me based upon what I did in the flesh. Believing is a work because this is what defines a work, the Greek word used commonly is ergon and means:

érgon (from ergō, "to work, accomplish") – a work or worker who accomplishes something. 2041 /érgon ("work") is a deed (action) that carries out (completes) an inner desire (intension, purpose).

Notice that a work is that action or deed that carries out an inner desire , intention, purpose.

Now what is it to seek the Lord ? Is that not an inner desire ?

For instance the Word Seek in Heb 11:6

6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Its the greek word and verb :

ekzēteō and means:


I.to seek out, search for


II.to seek out, i.e. investigate, scrutinise


III.to seek out for one's self, beg, crave


IV.to demand back, require


I.to seek in order to find

A.to seek a thing


B.to seek [in order to find out] by thinking, meditating, reasoning, to enquire into


C.to seek after, seek for, aim at, strive after



II.to seek i.e. require, demand

A.to crave, demand something from someone

The word is translated desire as in inner desire Lk 9:9

9 And Herod said, John have I beheaded: but who is this, of whom I hear such things? And he desired to see him.

Now according to the definition of ergon, thats a work, an inner desire !

And this Seeking of Heb 11:6 is an intricate part of what Faith is , and what Believing is.

But now if we agree with the latter , that is "they believe because they are / were saved " Then thats Salvation by Grace , because we believe through Grace Acts 18:27 !

I recommend a article to be read that will give some understanding on what it means to believe and be saved, which is scriptural, versus the deceptive lie, to believe and get saved which translates into works salvation :

Must One Believe to "Be Saved?"

In a word, YES, but not for the reasons most people think. However, those who believe in what is called High Calvinism or Unconditional Election and Predestination or Particular Redemption such as the Primitive Baptists, some times say, No, you don't have to believe in order to be saved. This difficulty arises from a misconception, sometimes in both Calvinists and Arminians, about what it means to be saved.

First, the Bible makes a distinction between being saved eternally (eternal life) and being saved in time (conversion). That does not mean that eternal salvation and salvation in time are mutually exclusive. The fact is one begets the other. Salvation is a broad term that encompasses both eternal life and conversion. Therefore, those who experience eternal life will likewise experience conversion. But confusion arises when a failure is made to distinguish the meaning of a small but significant word be.

Most modern Christians, because of false theology, think the scriptures teach that to be means the same thing as to get. However, there is an important difference between the two. If the Bible taught that one must believe in order to get saved, then salvation would be by our own effort. But the Bible teaches one must believe in order to be saved. The word be indicates a statement of fact. The word get indicates a condition to be met.

What's the difference? Mark 16:16 states, He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. Clearly this scripture is talking about salvation in both its temporal and eternal aspect. Many Christians today have been taught that scriptures such as this one mean you must believe in order to get saved. But that is not at all what Christ said. The term "shall be saved" is translated from the Greek word sodzo. In this passage the verb sodzo is in the Future Tense, Passive Voice, Indicative Mood. The Online Bible says, "The indicative mood is a simple statement of fact." Because sodzo is written in the indicative mood, it means the salvation Christ has under consideration is not and cannot be a condition to be met. It means that belief is the evidence or assurance of salvation not the means to obtain salvation. It means that everyone who has been saved or will "be saved" will believe in Christ as a matter of fact. Thus, as this scripture demonstrates, belief is necessary because of salvation not to get salvation.

If Christ had rendered sodzo in the imperative mood, then one would be correct in saying you must believe in order to get saved. The Online Bible defines the imperative mood as that which, "expresses a command to the hearer to perform a certain action by the order and authority of the one commanding." A good example of a scripture with an imperative command is found in the Great Commission. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, Mathew 28:19. "Teach" is from the Greek word matheteuo. This verb is written in the imperative mood and expresses a clear command to the disciples to teach the nations Christ's doctrine.

Another example of sodzo is found in Ro 10:9, That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. And again in Ro 10:13, For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. In both of these scriptures sodzo is rendered in the indicative mood. Therefore it is a statement of fact that anyone who confesses belief in Jesus and His resurrection, calling upon His name from the heart, will be saved. Because the mood is indicative, it is not the belief, confession or sincerity that results in the saving, either in time or in eternity. Jesus Christ is the Saviour. He saves with the power of his shed blood and by grace alone delivers the sinner from death. Belief, confession and sincerity from the heart are all the result of Christ's saving work not the cause or means to obtain that saving work.

The recipients of this sovereign saving work of Christ are referred to in the scriptures as my sheep, His People, my people, the chosen, the elect and Israel (spiritual). John 10:27, Mathew 1:21, II Corinthians 6:16, Ephesians 1:4, II Timothy 2:10, Romans 9:6-24.

It is true that one doesn't have to believe in order to get saved but the Bible teaches a person must believe to be saved.

Elder James Taylor

http://www.oldschoolbaptist.org/articles/MustOneBelieveToBeSaved.htm

I challenge anyone to review what this article states, and to provide refutation if they can, because if this point isnt grasped, we are in Eternal Peril !

 

[beloved57]

Does believing play a part in Salvation ? 2

Does believing play a part in Salvation ? 2

But now if we agree with the latter , that is "they believe because they are / were saved " Then thats Salvation by Grace , because we believe through Grace Acts 18:27 !

The point is this believing is evidence of the Saving Work of the Spirit . Recall that an aspect of Salvation, a vital part of it, is belief of the Truth, which comes as a Result of the Sanctifying Work of the Spirit 2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through[in] sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

This is also what Paul means in Titus 3:5

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Notice how Paul said they were saved ! It was by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost, which is another way of saying Sanctification of the Spirit. The Saving by the Spirit is for the belief of the Truth !

So when the Spirit saved person believes, they believe because they were saved, or they believed because of Grace Acts 18:27 because the Spirit is also the Spirit of Grace Zech 12:10

10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

I highlighted that word pour here because its the same word Paul used here in Titus 3:5-6

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

That word shed the greek word ekcheō means :


I.to pour out, shed forth


II.metaph. to bestow or distribute largely

This Pouring out of the Holy Ghost referenced here in Titus 3:6 is the same as the pouring out of the Spirit of Grace in Zech 12:10, which saved us, in order to believe the Truth.

So belief of the Truth, or Believing is the result of , the evidence of being saved by the Spirit, because of what Christ has done for them by His Work of the Cross on their behalf ! So believing plays a part in Salvation, to evidence the Spirits Saving Role in Ones Salvation, we cannot believe the Truth until saved by Him !

 

[beloved57]

Does believing play a part in Salvation ? 3

Does believing play a part in Salvation ? 3

Yes Believing plays a Huge part in Salvation in that we believe because we are saved, there is no believing unless we are saved first, for we cannot believe in a lost state ! The Gospel is hid to them that are in a lost state so that they cannot believe being blinded by the devil, or the god/prince of this world 2 Cor 4:3-4 ! Hence we believe because of being saved by and through Grace Acts 18:27

27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:

They believed because of being saved by Grace. The word through here is the preposition dia, which means :

on account of, by reason of, for the sake of, or because of Grace ! Not because of freewill as the proud boaster would have us believe, but again because of Grace, the Grace of the Spirit Zech 12:10.

Grace here is said to be the author and efficient cause of their believing, because of Grace which is the Gift of God !

The word grace in Acts 18:27 is charis and means:

A.of the merciful kindness by which God, exerting his holy influence upon souls, turns them to Christ, keeps, strengthens, increases them in Christian faith, knowledge, affection, and kindles them to the exercise of the Christian virtues

Its the Gift by Grace Rom 5:15

But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

This Grace abounds victoriously towards us through the Lord Jesus Christ, and is similar to the fact that with the giving of His Son for us, with Him He gave us all things that produces and pertains to Life and godliness Rom 8:32 ; 2 Pet 1:3 ! And Godliness is to Acknowledge the Truth Titus 1:1

Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

And thats what results us believing, because of Grace through Jesus Christ Jn 1:16-17 !

 

[beloved57]

Does believing play a part in Salvation ? 4

Does believing play a part in Salvation ? 4

Since and because True Spiritual Believing is by and through Grace, the Grace of the Spirit working effectually in us, thats why men can have no occasion to boast, men dont even have a platform to boast, because believing is not of their own doing, as the efficient cause of it, but its the Gift/ Grace of God. Now if I believe the Gospel volitionally and another doesnt who had the equal opportunity, what makes me to differ ? Why its the Grace of God, plain and simple. It was abundant towards me giving Faith and Love as testified by Paul 1 Tim 1:13-14

13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

Paul is not unique in receiving mercy, all the elect do Rom 11:32

32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Note: When God has mercy upon us, it is then we receive mercy !

We must believe because we are saved, simply because we cannot believe in a lost state, #1 To believe is Faith and Faith Pleases God Heb 11:6 and #2 the unsaved person in the flesh cannot please God Rom 8:8 ! So believing is essential to Salvation to be the evidence of it, and to Praise God for His Saving Grace !