Freewill religion is the Man of Sin !

[beloved57]

Hath passed from death to life ? But when ?

Hath passed from death to life ? But when ?

Jn 5:24

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

1 Jn 3:14

14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

All for whom Christ died and arose again in behalf of, are primarily and in principle already passed from death to life as indicated in the above scriptures.

In both the phrase "passed from death unto life" its in perfect tense denoting a once and for all completed action in the past with results into the present.

The Believer, before becoming a believer, in their Head Christ, has passed from death unto life, so in Christ they were all dead as here 2 Cor 5:14

14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

So first of all, all that believe, had passed from death to Life by Union with their Head, when He as their Surety Head passed from death unto life by His Resurrection from the dead, they in Principle and Purpose did also as well,

and secondly, before they can believe, and in order that they do believe, they are passed from death unto life by a individual and personal Spiritual Resurrection from Spiritual death [being dead in sin Eph 2:5] also known as the New Birth or being born again.

So believing, and Loving the Brethren are fruits of having been passed from death unto Life !

 

[patrick jane]

Well,....'zombies for Jesus' doesn't exactly have too cheery a ring to it :crackup: - if souls are predetermined beyond any choice of their own, to be 'damned' or 'saved' as something God somehow (its a mystery) already ordained or 'effected' at some time in eternity past, it is a somewhat contrived existence, to live only for the sake of this god's glory and self-aggrandizement. This 'theology' however appeals for those who need the eternal 'security' concept for their own souls, since it lets them abandon the concept of 'self-responsibility' and lets 'God' divvy out the rewards and punishments. See how subtle it is.




pj

so true freelight. b57 and others (Gm), are so afraid, that they have a deep need for love and security. they need so badly to believe they are saved, they shut down to reality. they can't be honest or show weakness or get past "themselves" - sad

 

[False Prophet]

Let no man deceive you by any means, for unless there come a revolt first, and the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition, [4] Who opposeth, and is lifted up above all that is called God, or that is worshipped, so that he sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself as if he were God. 2 Thess 2

 

[Nanja]

Jn 5:24

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

1 Jn 3:14

14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

All for whom Christ died and arose again in behalf of, are primarily and in principle already passed from death to life as indicated in the above scriptures.

In both the phrase "passed from death unto life" its in perfect tense denoting a once and for all completed action in the past with results into the present.

The Believer, before becoming a believer, in their Head Christ, has passed from death unto life, so in Christ they were all dead as here 2 Cor 5:14

14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

So first of all, all that believe, had passed from death to Life by Union with their Head, when He as their Surety Head passed from death unto life by His Resurrection from the dead, they in Principle and Purpose did also as well,

and secondly, before they can believe, and in order that they do believe, they are passed from death unto life by a individual and personal Spiritual Resurrection from Spiritual death [being dead in sin Eph 2:5] also known as the New Birth or being born again.

So believing, and Loving the Brethren are fruits of having been passed from death unto Life !

Amen!

Those who were chosen in Christ to the adoption of sons before the foundation,
they were in Union with Him, their Head, when He died, and also when He rose again.
And they remain in Him presently as He is seated at the Right Hand of The Father.
Christ and His Church which He gave His Life for, are One!

Eph. 2:4-10 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us
through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves:
it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship,
created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

~~~~~

 

[beloved57]

Amen!

Those who were chosen in Christ to the adoption of sons before the foundation,
they were in Union with Him, their Head, when He died, and also when He rose again.
And they remain in Him presently as He is seated at the Right Hand of The Father.
Christ and His Church which He gave His Life for, are One!

Eph. 2:4-10 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us
through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves:
it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship,
created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

~~~~~

God has given you ears to hear the truth as it is in Christ Jesus !

 

[Nanja]

God has given you ears to hear the truth as it is in Christ Jesus !

Thanking and Praising Him always! 1 Pet. 2:9

~~~~~

 

[journey]

so true freelight. b57 and others (Gm), are so afraid, that they have a deep need for love and security. they need so badly to believe they are saved, they shut down to reality. they can't be honest or show weakness or get past "themselves" - sad

You're the sad one. You're making a reputation for yourself that isn't good. You fabricate attacks against others in an effort to build yourself up. You need to learn how to mind your own business, especially as a newby. At best, your post is off-topic, disruptive, and a violation of forum rules.

 

[beloved57]

Faith, Coming to Christ pleases God !

Faith, Coming to Christ pleases God !

Heb 11:1,6

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Understand, Faith or coming to Christ, pleases God 1 Jn 3:22-23

22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

One of the Commandments pleasing in God's sight, is That we should believe on the Name of His Son Jesus Christ !

Jn 1:12

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

So these here in Jn 1:12 , by believing on His Name, did that which was pleasing in God's Sight !

So again, Faith, coming to Christ pleases God : Yes the Faith we need to Believe on Christ, believe on His Name, or to come to Him, which is the same, it pleases God !

We know this as we will look at a couple more scriptures . Now that Faith, Believing and coming are all joined together and equivalent, is seen from Heb 11:6 !

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

The word Faith is the word pistis [noun] is the same word for believe, which is the verb form of the same noun, and it involves coming [pros/erchomai]:


I.to come to, approach


II.draw near to


III.to assent to

Now lets look at another similar combination of these words in Jn 6:64-65

64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

 

[beloved57]

Faith, Coming to Christ pleases God ! 2

Faith, Coming to Christ pleases God ! 2

Back to looking at Jn 6:64-65

64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

It is noted that believing [not] in Vs 64 is related to the coming in Vs 65.

So its established that Faith, and Coming do relate and qualify one another as well as the Word Believe, the verb form of Faith the Noun pistis which means:

I.conviction of the truth of anything, belief; in the NT of a conviction or belief respecting man's relationship to God and divine things, generally with the included idea of trust and holy fervour born of faith and joined with it

A.relating to God

i.the conviction that God exists and is the creator and ruler of all things, the provider and bestower of eternal salvation through Christ



B.relating to Christ

i.a strong and welcome conviction or belief that Jesus is the Messiah, through whom we obtain eternal salvation in the kingdom of God



C.the religious beliefs of Christians


D.belief with the predominate idea of trust (or confidence) whether in God or in Christ, springing from faith in the same



II.fidelity, faithfulness

A.the character of one who can be relied on

I.persuade

A.to persuade, i.e. to induce one by words to believe


B.to make friends of, to win one's favour, gain one's good will, or to seek to win one, strive to please one


C.to tranquillise


D.to persuade unto i.e. move or induce one to persuasion to do something



II.be persuaded

A.to be persuaded, to suffer one's self to be persuaded; to be induced to believe: to have faith: in a thing

i.to believe


ii.to be persuaded of a thing concerning a person



B.to listen to, obey, yield to, comply with



III.to trust, have confidence, be confident

That this is Faith in Christ and pleases God !

But now here is the ONE BIG OBSTACLE we have, Those in the flesh cannot please God Rom 8:8

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

That word cannot means that they dont have the ability or will to please God !

This translates into the Natural man cannot come to Christ in Faith, Its impossible, for it is granted only to those who are born again, putting them in the Spirit as opposed to being only in the flesh which by nature , thats all we are and can be Jn 3:6

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Again, Only those Born of the Spirit can do it, because thats the only way any man or women are not in the flesh, when the Spirit indwells them Rom 8:9

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

 

[freelight]

for the choosing......

for the choosing......

Spam comment !

I suppose that's a matter of perspective. Her comment is actually pretty clever ....and it DOES address the concept of 'predestination' and the notion that free will does not exist, or is somehow 'the man of sin', a somewhat odd assumption :think:

If you are a robot in God's army, or a puppet in his theater....it might appear to be a rather contrived existence, being a mere pawn of the great gamer in the sky, so to speak. We could draw many wonderful allusions here,....aw come on.....stretch your imagination a bit. Are you happy to be a puppet, or a free thinking acting individual with a measure of individual sovereignty, as far as your personal condition and destiny is concerned,....assuming an actual freedom to choose, in any given space or time. Perhaps this could be God's real gift to you, and your real gift to God,...that you would freely choose to love and respond to Him?

Consider the value of choice.

That this is Faith in Christ and pleases God !

But now here is the ONE BIG OBSTACLE we have, Those in the flesh cannot please God Rom 8:8

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

That word cannot means that they dont have the ability or will to please God !

This translates into the Natural man cannot come to Christ in Faith, Its impossible, for it is granted only to those who are born again, putting them in the Spirit as opposed to being only in the flesh which by nature , thats all we are and can be Jn 3:6

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Again, Only those Born of the Spirit can do it, because thats the only way any man or women are not in the flesh, when the Spirit indwells them Rom 8:9

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Note that Paul speaks of there being a 'choice' in following after the spirit or the flesh, to which he himself is con-fused, being in that dual struggle, finding himself to be a slave of sin, but only able to escape sin/death thru the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus, but he still includes the notion and encouragement for one to follow after the Spirit, as if you HAD A CHOICE. Even if a person has the Spirit of God indwelling him, he can still SIN. How do you reconcile that, for the choice to follow the flesh over the spirit appears to have taken precedence in such a situation. It appears there is always a choice in every arising moment. Have you sinned since you received the Holy Spirit? What or who determines what you yield yourself to?


pj

 

[freelight]

heads or tails.....

heads or tails.....

You're the sad one. You're making a reputation for yourself that isn't good. You fabricate attacks against others in an effort to build yourself up. You need to learn how to mind your own business, especially as a newby. At best, your post is off-topic, disruptive, and a violation of forum rules.

Pj is addressing the topic with her statement,....perhaps you ought to give it some thought. "robot religion is the bane of existence". Without actual free will (a true measure of the actual freedom to choose among any number of options)...there can be no real 'responsibility' on a personal or universal level. I'd explore your creative side a bit and enjoy some poetry, and do brush up on the forum rules. Unless pj has repetitively broken one of the rules here, your 'chastisement' maybe a bit premature.

B57 called it a "spam comment!", since it appears to have stuck a nerve....perhaps a little 'sting' of 'truth' there?



pj

 

[beloved57]

fl

I suppose that's a matter of perspective.

Yes thats my perspective of it !

 

[beloved57]

fl

Consider the value of choice.

Nothing about choice mentioned in anything I posted to include the scriptures. Now, I see you read the post, but did you understand the points I was making ? Please review with me the post and point out the points I made whether you agree or not !

 

[TulipBee]

Pj is addressing the topic with her statement,....perhaps you ought to give it some thought. "robot religion is the bane of existence". Without actual free will (a true measure of the actual freedom to choose among any number of options)...there can be no real 'responsibility' on a personal or universal level. I'd explore your creative side a bit and enjoy some poetry, and do brush up on the forum rules. Unless pj has repetitively broken one of the rules here, your 'chastisement' maybe a bit premature.

B57 called it a "spam comment!", since it appears to have stuck a nerve....perhaps a little 'sting' of 'truth' there?



pj

Robot religion are for computer programmers.

When the anticalvinists tries to hack thier way into
heaven, they get an "access denied"

 

[TIPlatypus]

I'm wondering, free-will is a bit of a silly concept. If you thin about it, you cannot truly do anything you like. I couldn't snap my fingers and achieve world peace. In fact, this is just as illogical as believing that you cannot truly choose to do anything. Nothing has any value if you are "free" or if you have no control over your life. These are both concepts which have little bearing on the real world.

 

[freelight]

bots for Jesus......

bots for Jesus......

Robot religion are for computer programmers.

- factor in the concept of 'artificial intelligence' into the equation, and it makes for some interesting possibilitiesand determinations. I gather pj's comment however addressed more of the 'baneful' (negative/shallow) existence of we being mere 'robots', or 'puppets' in some god's hands. It makes for beautiful poetry, with perhaps a deeper meaning if you dig a little. While boasting of God doing all and everything for His Glory, we just being 'pawns' in his great play (Self-aggrandizing as that may be)...we might be missing out on giving ourselves a 'partnershiping-credit' in the fulfilling of creation, since you do recall we do receive 'rewards' and are 'judged' according TO OUR WORKS, for his reward is with him. Overcomers get to enjoy all the 'promises' or 'gifts' of their over-coming faith, do they not? Remember, a 'covenant' is a partnership, joining, co-operation of 2 parties. Let that simmer.

When the anticalvinists tries to hack thier way into
heaven, they get an "access denied"

Sharing some apologetic videos of Dr. James White on the KJV-only issues (see my former posts in that thread),...I may peek back into some Calvinistic principles,....since I respect his biblical scholarship in certain areas. My more freelance interpretations of 'TULIP' however, from a more liberal spiritualistic perspective didn't go too well in a 'reformed' forum some time back, where I was banned. Unfortunately, my 'articles' on TULIP from a New Thought (Divine Science) perspective were gone when I last returned since the forum closed down. That would have been nice to still have those classic commentaries

You may know I'm all flowers on 'divine providence' and the wonder of how our own freedom of choice factors into things. My only concerns and caution is towards very extreme forms of 'hyper-calvinism' which can often turn some into mean-spirited dogmatists, if gone too awry. Otherwise, one can glean from points from Calvin and other theologians within his schools or branch offs, as all comes down from the 'family tree' in one offshoot or another. I'm probably having too much fun with the likes of Origen, Clement of Alexandria or Valentinius on a more liberal gnostic front, so sometimes avoid the more die-hard fundamentalists for a more free-flow approach, philosophically that is.

I see divine providence as ultimately governing all that is.....but we as parts of the greater whole have our place and 'partnership' in 'conditions' affecting ultimate destinies, even if it just seems like it, since life evolves within a co-operation of movements, having distinct mechanisms particularly, yet universally being included in what is indivisible in its totality. So sure,.."God is all", and " all is God" in the universal/ultimate sense, the illusion of 'time' giving us the sense of duality, separation, imperfection, the sense of 'sin', until we are realized as perfect in the Eternal itself, as 'immortal', where 'time' ceases, and so all its effects have no more power, since they were illusions anyways.

So,....I use the term 'free will' to indicate whatever 'measure' of actual freedom of choice we have, at any moment. Just food for thought, so much for appetizers




pj

 

[patrick jane]

You're the sad one. You're making a reputation for yourself that isn't good. You fabricate attacks against others in an effort to build yourself up. You need to learn how to mind your own business, especially as a newby. At best, your post is off-topic, disruptive, and a violation of forum rules.

liars don't like the truthatrol:

 

[patrick jane]

Pj is addressing the topic with her statement,....perhaps you ought to give it some thought. "robot religion is the bane of existence". Without actual free will (a true measure of the actual freedom to choose among any number of options)...there can be no real 'responsibility' on a personal or universal level. I'd explore your creative side a bit and enjoy some poetry, and do brush up on the forum rules. Unless pj has repetitively broken one of the rules here, your 'chastisement' maybe a bit premature.

B57 called it a "spam comment!", since it appears to have stuck a nerve....perhaps a little 'sting' of 'truth' there?



pj

thanks freelight, i agree with alot that you say. except i'm a man - atrol:

 

[freelight]

hacking heaven......

hacking heaven......

When the anticalvinists tries to hack thier way into
heaven, they get an "access denied"

Well, we could say a lot about the calvies

I don't think its so much as gamers trying to 'hack' into the motherboard or maindrive of God's super-computer, since they still have at their command all the powers of choice and faculties of intelligence, to respond to and co-operate with God....no matter what context exists, anywhere.

Say that 'God' alone is the one doing everything, moving every molecule, atom, thought, directive, motive, directing our will, literally possessing us (a good Spirit 'possession' no doubt), so we have no choice. Again, this poses big problems for 'free will', 'personal responsibility' and other principles concerning our own sovereignty as individuals to make our own choices and choose our own destinies. This isn't a 'selfish' issue either, negatively speaking, if we really do have native rights granted by the Creator, to choose life or death. If 'God' gives us real freedom to choose, then so be it. If he doesn't, then the play of human language and experience is more or less a mirage.



pj

 

[freelight]

thanks freelight, i agree with alot that you say. except i'm a man - atrol:

Thanks for the heads up pj,...I think I got stuck on the 'jane' part of your name. You know how last names go



pj