Freewill religion is the Man of Sin !

Nanja

Well-known member
Now to be redeemed from all iniquity as Titus 2:14 states, it means that those Christ died for are redeemed from the penalty and guilt of their iniquities, and the power of their iniquities !

They must come to a conscious realization of the realization that Christ's Blood has totally delivered them from sin and the guilt of it. This was something that was not provided for under the OT economy of the blood of bulls and goats, they always were reminded of their iniquities Heb 9:8-9

8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:

9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;


Heb 10:1-4

For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.

3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.

4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

In other words, God would not allow them to have a conscience free from the guilt of their sins under that economy because of the insufficency of those sacrifices to take away their sins permanently !

But when it came to the Sacrifice of Christ, or the giving of Himself, it took away once and for all, all their iniquities before the Law and Justice of God, that now they will have their consciences purified from all sin against them ! Hence we read as a result of Christ's Blood shed this Heb 9:14

How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Thats right, the Blood of Christ shall purge the consciences of those His Blood was shed for !

It purges away the guilt of sin, religious sin, or irreligious sins, they both are only dead works done in the flesh !

That word purge here in Heb 9:14 is the same word purify in Titus 2:14 !

Now the reason why I explained this is because, this must occur as a result of Christ dying for our sins in the purpose of God.

Christ's redemptive death would have failed the purpose of God in Salvation through Christ, if indeed His Death did not redeem from all iniquity those He gave Himself for according to the Will of God !



Amen, in the Purpose of God, His Sons were Chosen in Christ before time
to be holy and without blame before Him in love Eph. 1:4.

Rom. 7:5-6 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law,
did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. But now we are delivered from the law,
that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit,
and not in the oldness of the letter.


So then, as members of His Body which He came to redeem Eph. 5:25,
they are are made free indeed from sin John 8:36, that they should receive
the Adoption of Sons
, evidenced by The Spirit coming into their hearts.

Gal. 4:4-6 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son,
made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law,
that we might receive the adoption of sons . And because ye are sons,
God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.


Now, as Sons, they can truly serve Him in His Temple 1 Cor. 6:19 offering Him
sacrifices of Thanksgiving and Praise Heb. 13:15; and Worship the Father as He Desires:

John 4:23-24 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers
shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth
: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

~~~~~
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Amen, in the Purpose of God, His Sons were Chosen in Christ before time
to be holy and without blame before Him in love Eph. 1:4.

Rom. 7:5-6 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law,
did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. But now we are delivered from the law,
that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit,
and not in the oldness of the letter.


So then, as members of His Body which He came to redeem Eph. 5:25,
they are are made free indeed from sin John 8:36, that they should receive
the Adoption of Sons
, evidenced by The Spirit coming into their hearts.

Gal. 4:4-6 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son,
made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law,
that we might receive the adoption of sons . And because ye are sons,
God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.


Now, as Sons, they can truly serve Him in His Temple 1 Cor. 6:19 offering Him
sacrifices of Thanksgiving and Praise Heb. 13:15; and Worship the Father as He Desires:

John 4:23-24 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers
shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth
: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

~~~~~

Very Good Summation !
 

Nanja

Well-known member
Very Good Summation !


TY! Our Father has pointed me to the excellent teachings in your threads,
by which you have taught me more extensively on how we must compare
Scripture with Scripture 1 Cor 2:13 in coming to Truth.

Thanking Him for you always!


~~~~~
 

beloved57

Well-known member
TY! Our Father has pointed me to the excellent teachings in your threads,
by which you have taught me more extensively on how we must compare
Scripture with Scripture 1 Cor 2:13 in coming to Truth.

Thanking Him for you always!


~~~~~

It's a blessing !
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Exposing False teaching about Jesus Christ !3

Exposing False teaching about Jesus Christ !3

Titus 2:14

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

We have seen that He gave Himself for those He specifically died for, for the purpose of redeeming them from all iniquity, which did include from its penalty , power and guilt of it, and we concluded that if His Death did not accomplish God's Purpose in doing just that, it was a failure !

Christ giving Himself was in order that He might deliver us [those He gave Himself for or in behalf of] from this present evil world /age according to the will / purpose of God Gal 1:4

4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:

This deliverance is an aspect of Salvation, deliverance from this present evil world. The word deliver exaireó:

I take out, remove; sometimes (mid): I choose, sometimes: I rescue.

eksairéō (from 1537 /ek, "completely out from," intensifying 138 /hairéomai, "personally choose, prefer") – properly, remove completely ("totally out from"), i.e. bring into a "complete rescue (full removal)."

[1807 (eksairéō) emphasizes total removal ("wholly out from"). This refers to a complete rescue, bringing a person into full deliverance.]

to rescue, deliver (properly, to cause to be rescued, but the middle force is lost

That they be delivered from walking conformably to the age which this wicked world belongs Eph 2:2

Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Its similar to Peters testimony that we have been redeemed from a vain conversation or manner of life 1 Pet 1:18

18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

That vain conversation is the same as the course of this world ! Now if this deliverance doesn't happen unto each one for whom Christ died [gave Himself for] then His death failed the purpose of God, and of course many so called christians do teach that millions for whom Christ died shall wined up in hell for their sins and in unbelief, which makes Christ's Death a failure !
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Exposing False teaching about Jesus Christ !4

Exposing False teaching about Jesus Christ !4

Another purpose which Christ's Death was to effect for all whom He died, that is gave Himself for or in behalf of was that they may Live together with Him 1 Thess 5:10

Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

Notice what Paul wrote, Who died for us ! Why ? For what purpose ? That [hina, in order that] whether we wake or sleep, we should Live together with Him !

Now if any for whom He died does not Live eternally together with Him, as His dying for them purposed, then His dying for them was in vain and ineffectual, not accomplishing the purpose of God !
 

Nanja

Well-known member
Another purpose which Christ's Death was to effect for all whom He died, that is gave Himself for or in behalf of was that they may Live together with Him 1 Thess 5:10

Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

Notice what Paul wrote, Who died for us ! Why ? For what purpose ? That [hina, in order that] whether we wake or sleep, we should Live together with Him !

Now if any for whom He died does not Live eternally together with Him, as His dying for them purposed, then His dying for them was in vain and ineffectual, not accomplishing the purpose of God !


Yes, the "us" here spoken of 1 Thes. 5:10 are the Elect Christ died for:
His Death was effectual for every one them, none is lost Luke 19:10.
That whether they are still alive or dead at His appearing,
they Live together with Him Rom. 14:8 because of their Union in Him Eph. 1:4.
God has not appointed them to wrath, but unto Salvation 1 Thes. 5:9.

On the other hand, there are those whom God has
purposely prepared unto wrath Rom. 9:22; 2 Pet. 2:9; Jude 1:4 KJV.

These verses prove that Christ's Death was not for every individual of mankind
without exception, but that God has appointed some to eternal wrath. And Paul
clearly taught it.

Yet, the false freewill gospel continues to be preached by the devil's children:
A false gospel Paul warned about Gal. 1:8-9.

~~~~~
 

Simon Baker

BANNED
Banned
Yes, the "us" here spoken of 1 Thes. 5:10 are the Elect Christ died for:
His Death was effectual for every one them, none is lost Luke 19:10.
That whether they are still alive or dead at His appearing,
they Live together with Him Rom. 14:8 because of their Union in Him Eph. 1:4.
God has not appointed them to wrath, but unto Salvation 1 Thes. 5:9.

On the other hand, there are those whom God has
purposely prepared unto wrath Rom. 9:22; 2 Pet. 2:9; Jude 1:4 KJV.

These verses prove that Christ's Death was not for every individual of mankind
without exception, but that God has appointed some to eternal wrath. And Paul
clearly taught it.

Yet, the false freewill gospel continues to be preached by the devil's children:
A false gospel Paul warned about
Gal. 1:8-9.

~~~~~
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Yes, the "us" here spoken of 1 Thes. 5:10 are the Elect Christ died for:
His Death was effectual for every one them, none is lost Luke 19:10.
That whether they are still alive or dead at His appearing,
they Live together with Him Rom. 14:8 because of their Union in Him Eph. 1:4.
God has not appointed them to wrath, but unto Salvation 1 Thes. 5:9.

On the other hand, there are those whom God has
purposely prepared unto wrath Rom. 9:22; 2 Pet. 2:9; Jude 1:4 KJV.

These verses prove that Christ's Death was not for every individual of mankind
without exception, but that God has appointed some to eternal wrath. And Paul
clearly taught it.

Yet, the false freewill gospel continues to be preached by the devil's children:
A false gospel Paul warned about Gal. 1:8-9.

~~~~~

Amen !
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
Questioning "the elect"........

Questioning "the elect"........

Yes, the "us" here spoken of 1 Thes. 5:10 are the Elect Christ died for:
His Death was effectual for every one them, none is lost Luke 19:10.
That whether they are still alive or dead at His appearing,
they Live together with Him Rom. 14:8 because of their Union in Him Eph. 1:4.
God has not appointed them to wrath, but unto Salvation 1 Thes. 5:9.

On the other hand, there are those whom God has
purposely prepared unto wrath Rom. 9:22; 2 Pet. 2:9; Jude 1:4 KJV.

These verses prove that Christ's Death was not for every individual of mankind
without exception, but that God has appointed some to eternal wrath. And Paul
clearly taught it.

Yet, the false freewill gospel continues to be preached by the devil's children:
A false gospel Paul warned about Gal. 1:8-9.

~~~~~

Ah, the elect get to indulge in their own 'selfish' gospel,....to God's glory of course while the wicked roast forever in a lake of fire. We've exposed the problems with ECT (eternal conscious torment in hell) here. The concept of 'eternal wrath' is also a 'stretch', when we consider the ultimate choice to reject God could include eternal soul-death (not ECT), so that a soul truly perishes, is dis-integrated, forfeits its life-potential as a personality. These souls are terminated as it were, unable to be resurrected, having made a final choice of self-destruction (eternal death). The other alternative is universal salvation, where all souls are eventually/ultimately saved, and rejoined to 'God', as the ultimate attraction of love at last triumphs and the divine will prevails. The issue of interest in all these scenarios is 'free will' and where it has a hand in 'determining' a soul's condition and destiny, in time and eternity. The jury is still out on a good many points in these dissertations.



pj
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
Oh gads.............

Oh gads.............

Freelight,

God's Word, the Holy Bible, does NOT agree with your views.

That depends on how you 'define' and 'interpret' words, understand them philosophically and contextualize things :)

As a free thinking eclectic, my maverick theology ought not surprise any, but the more adventurous take up the creativity and challenge to expand their horizons. Granted, there is enough differences of interpretation and translation among bible-believers to make up so many denominations, so they hardly need to take any cues from liberals and heretics for their schisms ;)

And we wont even go into the evolution or history of how the Bible was canonized, much less how one determines anything is somehow God's word.....



pj
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Ah, the elect get to indulge in their own 'selfish' gospel,....to God's glory of course while the wicked roast forever in a lake of fire. We've exposed the problems with ECT (eternal conscious torment in hell) here. The concept of 'eternal wrath' is also a 'stretch', when we consider the ultimate choice to reject God could include eternal soul-death (not ECT), so that a soul truly perishes, is dis-integrated, forfeits its life-potential as a personality. These souls are terminated as it were, unable to be resurrected, having made a final choice of self-destruction (eternal death). The other alternative is universal salvation, where all souls are eventually/ultimately saved, and rejoined to 'God', as the ultimate attraction of love at last triumphs and the divine will prevails. The issue of interest in all these scenarios is 'free will' and where it has a hand in 'determining' a soul's condition and destiny, in time and eternity. The jury is still out on a good many points in these dissertations.



pj

Disdain for the Gospel !
 

journey

New member
That depends on how you 'define' and 'interpret' words, understand them philosophically and contextualize things :)

As a free thinking eclectic, my maverick theology ought not surprise any, but the more adventurous take up the creativity and challenge to expand their horizons. Granted, there is enough differences of interpretation and translation among bible-believers to make up so many denominations, so they hardly need to take any cues from liberals and heretics for their schisms ;)

And we wont even go into the evolution or history of how the Bible was canonized, much less how one determines anything is somehow God's word.....



pj

I expected a reply like this from you. If the Holy Bible doesn't agree with your preconceived notions, you attack the Holy Bible. I'm well aware of your odd theology, but that doesn't change what the Holy Bible clearly and bluntly says. I'll believe the Bible instead of you.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Hearing the Word of God !

Hearing the Word of God !

Jn 8:43-47

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Man by nature does have the ability to hear God's word physically with the physical ear, as long as they are not physically handicapped by being deaf !

The issue at hand however is that man by nature cannot hear God's Word Spiritually with the ability to also understand it.

Notice in Vs 43 Jesus says to the natural jews of His day :

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

See how Jesus, God in the flesh speaking to them, links hearing with understanding.

The word speech here is the greek word lalia and means:


I.speech, i.e a story


II.dialect, mode of speech, pronunciation

A.speech which discloses the speaker's native country

speech which discloses the speaker's native country: hence of the speech by which Christ may be recognized as having come from heaven,

Jesus came down from Heaven Jn 6:51

I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

Jn 8:23

And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

Jn 8:38

I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.

Jn 12:49

For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

So by nature men do not have the ability to hear and understand the heavenly message which Jesus spoke, and thats what His point is in Jn 8:43-47 !

True Spiritual hearing is attended with understanding, so it is written Matt 13:13-15

13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

The Hearing here that denotes Conversion is coupled with understanding what you hear with the heart, and we mean a spiritual understanding, which by nature no man has Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Remember the difference between the stony heart or ground hearer of the word and that of the good heart or ground hearer ?

Notice first the stony ground Matt 13:20-21

20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;

21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

And now the good ground hearer Matt 13:23

23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

Now whats the difference indicated by these scriptures in the Two hearers ! What does it say about the good ground hearer of the word that it does not say about the stony ground hearer of the word ?

If you say that the difference is to the one being the good ground hearer, that he not only heard the word but understood it, you judge correctly.

Not that the stony ground hearer didnt hear it physically, but he never heard it with understanding, so as to bring forth the fruit of conversion !

And just to show the consistency of truth, the word understandeth in Matt 13:23

It is the same word for understandeth in Rom 3:11 ! This proves that the good ground hearer had been given a New Heart so that he could both spiritually hear and understand the word, and hence be converted and bear fruit ! Because hearing and understanding with the heart are that which bring forth conversion Matt 13:15

15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
 

Nanja

Well-known member
Jn 8:43-47

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Man by nature does have the ability to hear God's word physically with the physical ear, as long as they are not physically handicapped by being deaf !

The issue at hand however is that man by nature cannot hear God's Word Spiritually with the ability to also understand it.

Notice in Vs 43 Jesus says to the natural jews of His day :

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

See how Jesus, God in the flesh speaking to them, links hearing with understanding.

The word speech here is the greek word lalia and means:


I.speech, i.e a story


II.dialect, mode of speech, pronunciation

A.speech which discloses the speaker's native country

speech which discloses the speaker's native country: hence of the speech by which Christ may be recognized as having come from heaven,

Jesus came down from Heaven Jn 6:51

I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

Jn 8:23

And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

Jn 8:38

I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.

Jn 12:49

For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

So by nature men do not have the ability to hear and understand the heavenly message which Jesus spoke, and thats what His point is in Jn 8:43-47 !

True Spiritual hearing is attended with understanding, so it is written Matt 13:13-15

13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

The Hearing here that denotes Conversion is coupled with understanding what you hear with the heart, and we mean a spiritual understanding, which by nature no man has Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Remember the difference between the stony heart or ground hearer of the word and that of the good heart or ground hearer ?

Notice first the stony ground Matt 13:20-21

20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;

21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

And now the good ground hearer Matt 13:23

23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

Now whats the difference indicated by these scriptures in the Two hearers ! What does it say about the good ground hearer of the word that it does not say about the stony ground hearer of the word ?

If you say that the difference is to the one being the good ground hearer, that he not only heard the word but understood it, you judge correctly.

Not that the stony ground hearer didnt hear it physically, but he never heard it with understanding, so as to bring forth the fruit of conversion !

And just to show the consistency of truth, the word understandeth in Matt 13:23

It is the same word for understandeth in Rom 3:11 ! This proves that the good ground hearer had been given a New Heart so that he could both spiritually hear and understand the word, and hence be converted and bear fruit ! Because hearing and understanding with the heart are that which bring forth conversion Matt 13:15

15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.


Amen to this excellent post!

The natural man's heart is wicked Jer. 17:9, and his ears dull of hearing Mat. 13:15,
and so is unable to understand God's Word which is Spiritual.

But for those Elect from the foundation of the World, they must experience New Birth
whereby they are given Faith Gal. 5:22 KJV and the acknowledging of the Truth
because they have been promised Eternal Life before the world began:

Titus 1:1-2 Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ,
according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth
which is after godliness; In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie,
promised before the world began Eph. 1:11

So they must experience New Birth 1 Pet.1:3 whereby they are given a new Heart
Ezek. 36:26-27 to Love God Mat. 22:37 and give Him the worship He wants John 4:23.

Ps. 10:17 LORD, thou hast heard the desire of the humble:
thou wilt prepare their heart, thou wilt cause thine ear to hear

Prov. 20:12 The hearing ear, and the seeing eye, the LORD hath made even both of them.

~~~~~
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Amen to this excellent post!

The natural man's heart is wicked Jer. 17:9, and his ears dull of hearing Mat. 13:15,
and so is unable to understand God's Word which is Spiritual.

But for those Elect from the foundation of the World, they must experience New Birth
whereby they are given Faith Gal. 5:22 KJV and the acknowledging of the Truth
because they have been promised Eternal Life before the world began:

Titus 1:1-2 Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ,
according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth
which is after godliness; In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie,
promised before the world began Eph. 1:11

So they must experience New Birth 1 Pet.1:3 whereby they are given a new Heart
Ezek. 36:26-27 to Love God Mat. 22:37 and give Him the worship He wants John 4:23.

Ps. 10:17 LORD, thou hast heard the desire of the humble:
thou wilt prepare their heart, thou wilt cause thine ear to hear

Prov. 20:12 The hearing ear, and the seeing eye, the LORD hath made even both of them.

~~~~~

Thats a good point in Ps 10:17, Prov 16:1

The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.
 
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