Free Will

[Nang]

James says faith alone is DEAD and CANNOT SAVE ANYONE.

No, James taught that faith without works is dead. James 2:17

A profession of faith that does not produce holy living, is fake.
Faith alone saves, but is evidenced by holy works, as evidence of God's saving grace.

IOW's the most vile sinner is saved by the power and grace alone, through God's gift of faith to the sinner, that gives the capacity to believe the Son for forgiveness of sins, and this grace and faith always is evidenced and witnessed to the world through a holy and repentant/obedient lifestyle on the part of the believer.

If a person claims to be saved by the grace of God, by faith alone, but fails to live a holy and obedient life, then that person's faith is in vain and dead (faked).

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Calvinists believe that we do not have freewill to obey.

I am speaking about obedience because it signifies freewill.

I am glad I considered more what you are saying to me, and I hope you understand more now why I speak of obedience in this thread.

Obedience is evidence of the freewill we are to do to be saved.

I meant every positive word and I appreciate your stance. From careful observation, I could tell they were exploiting your personal spiritual buttons. I hated watching them do that. There are others here that are being extremely loving towards you and they simply are sharpening you as you sharpen them.

I don't like seeing argumentative Christians (Calvinists) mess with doctrine free Christians.

That was my motivation for the other info.

 

[JudgeRightly]

I ment every positive word and I appreciate your stance. From careful observation, I could tell they were exploiting your personal spiritual buttons. I hated watching them do that. There are others here that are being extremely loving towards you and they simply are sharpening you as you sharpen them.

I don't like seeing argumentative Christians (Calvinists) mess with doctrine free Christians.

That was my motivation for the other info.

Sparring typically improves one's abilities.

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[Nang]

Here is what James said in regard to how a person is born of God:

"Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures" (Jas.1:17).​

Yes, and Christians evidence this justification by faith, alone, by holy and obedient works. James 2:17

 

[Nang]

I don't like seeing argumentative Christians (Calvinists) mess with doctrine free Christians.

There is no such thing as a "doctrine-free Christian."

 

[God's Truth]

No, James taught that faith without works is dead. James 2:17

That is what I said.

The only time ‘faith alone’ is mentioned in the Bible, it is to tell us what kind of faith not to have.

James 2:24 You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.

Faith alone without any right action does not save. Apostle James says such faith is DEAD.
Many denominations call that dead faith ‘saving faith’.

James 2:17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
James tells us faith alone cannot save a man. See James 2:14.

That “dead faith” is NOT the most important kind of faith ever known.

A profession of faith that does not produce holy living, is fake.

It doesn't even produce salvation.

You keep saying all we need is faith.

Faith alone saves, but is evidenced by holy works, as evidence of God's saving grace.

You said it again.

Faith alone does NOT save it is dead.

IOW's the most vile sinner is saved by the power and grace alone, through God's gift of faith to the sinner,

God's grace is that we do not have to work at cleaning ourselves anymore because Jesus cleans us by our only having to have faith that his blood cleans us of the sins we repent of doing.

that gives the capacity to believe the Son for forgiveness of sins, and this grace and faith always is evidenced and witnessed to the world through a holy and repentant/obedient lifestyle on the part of the believer.

If a person claims to be saved by the grace of God, by faith alone, but fails to live a holy and obedient life, then that person's faith is in vain and dead (faked).

Again, it is simple, believe what is plainly written---faith alone is dead and cannot save anyone.

 

[God's Truth]

I meant every positive word and I appreciate your stance. From careful observation, I could tell they were exploiting your personal spiritual buttons. I hated watching them do that. There are others here that are being extremely loving towards you and they simply are sharpening you as you sharpen them.

I don't like seeing argumentative Christians (Calvinists) mess with doctrine free Christians.

That was my motivation for the other info.

You are rare and a great change. Thank you.

 

[Nang]

That is what I said.

The only time ‘faith alone’ is mentioned in the Bible, it is to tell us what kind of faith not to have.

James 2:24 You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.

This scripture does not define faith in Jesus Christ, that alone saves and justifies a soul as a "doing", but simply teaches that such faith does not function or exist alone or apart from living a new, holy, obedient, and spiritual lifestyle.

Faith alone without any right action does not save. Apostle James says such faith is DEAD.
Many denominations call that dead faith ‘saving faith’.

James 2:17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
James tells us faith alone cannot save a man. See James 2:14.

That “dead faith” is NOT the most important kind of faith ever known.



It doesn't even produce salvation.

You keep saying all we need is faith.

For justification, yes. All sinners need to be forgiven, is the gift of faith to believe in the grace and salvation provided by Jesus Christ.

You said it again.

Faith alone does NOT save it is dead.

Yes it does.

No soul is saved by works.

Faith is gifted first to the sinner, and works follow, to evidence that saving faith is from God.

God's grace is that we do not have to work at cleaning ourselves anymore because Jesus cleans us by our only having to have faith that his blood cleans us of the sins we repent of doing.

Agreed. We are saying the same thing in different words. . .

Again, it is simple, believe what is plainly written---faith alone is dead and cannot save anyone.

You are confusing faith alone that is Justification (forgiveness) with daily practice of faith that is Sanctification.

Two different doctrines.

Justification comes by grace and the gift of faith from God alone.

Sanctification is the new life of obedient faith that follows and witnesses to the glory of God.

Both doctrines teaching freedom from law and works in the Christian life!


Convoluting these two truths is error (which the RCC is guilty of doing) and it is the Protestant teaching that distinguishes the blessings of Justification and Sanctification which preserves free grace along with free holy living in every child of God.

 

[freelight]

In the Beginning.............

In the Beginning.............

What scripture says that man has a freewill?

Many scriptures, and human experience itself, shows that man has freedom of choice. Lets take for instance the story of Adam & Eve, (going back to Genesis)...when God gave them a command, or any kind of instruction whatsoever, did they have in their power (ability/capacity) the freedom to either obey or disobey that instruction? - we ask the same in this instance in conversation with the serpent,...did Eve have the freedom to either heed or reject the offer or enticement of the serpent?

 

[beloved57]

Many scriptures, and human experience itself, shows that man has freedom of choice. Lets take for instance the story of Adam & Eve, (going back to Genesis)...when God gave them a command, or any kind of instruction whatsoever, did they have in their power (ability/capacity) the freedom to either obey or disobey that instruction? - we ask the same in this instance in conversation with the serpent,...did Eve have the freedom to either heed or reject the offer or enticement of the serpent?

Again, show me the scripture that says man was given a freewill!

 

[TulipBee]

Adding on from my previous posts here & here.....

It appears I'm on Nanja's ignore list, but who knows. These two are in mental 'grid-lock',...and playing 'hi-five' to each other, while not getting to the deeper core issues I and others brought up here earlier concerning 'free will' in its 'libertarian' and 'compatabilist' viewpoints,...they cherry pick verses and spew the same proof texts, then demand where in the scriptures 'free will' is taught, when 'freedom of choice' is obvious in many passages (besides our very own lives), and such freedom is an essential part of a 'covenant-relationships', but dogma shackles their minds, shrouding their vision, becoming their 'god', worshipping their own 'version' of 'God' whose hate condemns sinners to damnation while saving only the 'elect', all the while both groups having no choice in the matter! Stupendous eh? What you have is a self-serving theology, pretending to be 'God-serving' but being the very antithesis of love.

Sadly this thread has gone off into various tangents without fully diving deep into the very complexity of 'free will' from a metaphysical/philosophical point of view, to a more shallow mud-sling match of tossing verses at each other, more like a cafeteria food fight. I'd hope the caliber of discussion could be a bit more elevated. But oh well,...one can only go so far as they are intellectually inclined.

Free will (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

Do you believe in Bible verses?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Again, show me the scripture that says man was given a freewill!

"And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt" (Mt.26:39).​

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Yes, and Christians evidence this justification by faith, alone, by holy and obedient works. James 2:17

Can you not see that being born of God is APART FROM WORKS OF ANY KIND?:

"Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures" (Jas.1:17).​

A person is born again by believing the gospel and that is APART FROM WORKS:

"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God...And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you" (1 Pet.1:23,25).​

 

[beloved57]

"And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt" (Mt.26:39).​

Huh? That scripture doesn't say that God gave man a freewill. Kinda desperate aren't you? Lol

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[Jerry Shugart]

Many scriptures, and human experience itself, shows that man has freedom of choice. Lets take for instance the story of Adam & Eve, (going back to Genesis)...when God gave them a command, or any kind of instruction whatsoever, did they have in their power (ability/capacity) the freedom to either obey or disobey that instruction? - we ask the same in this instance in conversation with the serpent,...did Eve have the freedom to either heed or reject the offer or enticement of the serpent?

Yes, she had the freedom. However, the Calvinists teach that God was responsible for her sin because every thing which she did was due to God's will and not her own!

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Huh? That scripture doesn't say that God gave man a freewill. Kinda desperate aren't you?

If you will actually read the words of the Lord Jesus you can see that His "will" on this matter was not the same as the "will" of the Father. Therefore, His will is "free" from the will of the Father:

"And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt" (Mt.26:39).​

Do you deny that the Lord Jesus was made like us in every way?

 

[beloved57]

Can you not see that being born of God is APART FROM WORKS OF ANY KIND?:

"Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures" (Jas.1:17).​

A person is born again by believing the gospel and that is APART FROM WORKS:

"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God...And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you" (1 Pet.1:23,25).​

False teaching. Until a person is born again, they are in the flesh; and they which are in the flesh can't please God Rom 8:8 !

 

[beloved57]

If you will actually read the words of the Lord Jesus you can see that His "will" on this matter was not the same as the "will" of the Father. Therefore, His will is "free" from the will of the Father:

"And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt" (Mt.26:39).​

Do you deny that the Lord Jesus was made like us in every way?

Where did that scripture say that God gave man a freewill?



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[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

You are rare and a great change. Thank you.

Back at you Sister. You too.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

There is no such thing as a "doctrine-free Christian."