ECT "For He must reign until ..."

elohiym

elohiym

Well-known member
genuineoriginal said:
These passages show when the first resurrection happens:

1 Thessalonians 4:13-17
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.​


1 Corinthians 15:51-54
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.​


1 John 3:2
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.​

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Are you sure?

Let's discuss the first resurrection on its own thread: The first resurrection.
 
D

Danoh

New member
elohiym said:
1 Corinthians 15:25 For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.

The Lord Jesus Christ is reigning now while His enemies are being put under His feet.

This discussion will be about how the Lord is reigning now.

Those who believe the Lord's reign is future are welcome to debate.
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That passage is relating that He will one day reign until He has put down all rebellion.

Meaning; the other end of His yet future Millennial reign - that last rebellion when Lucifer is set loose for his last attempt at what will only spell out his end at last, and with that, the end of the death he unleashed on mankind way back when, in Genesis 3.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
Danoh said:
That passage is relating that He will one day reign until He has put down all rebellion.

Meaning; the other end of His yet future Millennial reign - that last rebellion when Lucifer is set loose for his last attempt at what will only spell out his end at last, and with that, the end of the death he unleashed on mankind way back when, in Genesis 3.
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That's just it Danoh, it is not 'one day'. We live in a period which was launched with the following expression: the gates of hell (intended to stop enemies from invading) will not stop those enemies. In the undercurrent of things, the Christian faith has had huge successes and impacts, all or most uncredited. Among these are respect for property/dignity; the end of racism; the medical advances; the treatment of women.

The passages simply are not saying what you just said. The apostles use Ps 2 in real time about the problems of the first days and months of the church. Paul wished for all secular authorities to believe and live in righteousness.

There is no corroborating reference to a millenium in any ordinary (non-symbolic) letter. 2 Pet 3 as the largest unit of material, for ex. There are several reasons to believe that the fall of the harlot is the DofJ and the reign of Christ in the Rev is now and the little period of rebellion is the only thing left of that kind of thing. Christians everywhere to be harrassed but the harrassers to be vanquished by a word. No Judaic details, time frames, chronologies, other than that.
 
D

Danoh

New member
It might do you well, IP, to do a word study - in the Scripture - as to the actual sense of the phrase "the gates of hell."

I'm glad, by the way; you got over your thought to put me on ignore; you shouldn't let anyone rattle your cage to such extremes.

Use such moments instead to practice patience in tribulation.

Believe me, I am far from the last of your opportunities to let Christ alone be the issue during such moments.

We will both be tried by the at times trying words and or actions not only of one another, but of others...time and again; rest assured such will remain the case.

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; 5:4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope: 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
 
SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
Interplanner said:
That's just it Danoh, it is not 'one day'. We live in a period which was launched with the following expression: the gates of hell (intended to stop enemies from invading) will not stop those enemies.
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Or intended to keep prisoners in.
Did the Father show the Son a pathway out of hell, and raise him up?
The gates of hell did not prevail against him.
 
elohiym

elohiym

Well-known member
Danoh said:
That passage is relating that He will one day reign until He has put down all rebellion.
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According to your interpretation there will be rebellion while he's reigning, being subdued while he's reigning. How will that look different than what we see happening now?

Danoh said:
Meaning; the other end of His yet future Millennial reign - that last rebellion when Lucifer is set loose for his last attempt at what will only spell out his end at last, and with that, the end of the death he unleashed on mankind way back when, in Genesis 3.
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If you believe Him, you cannot die (Jn 11:26). How will death be defeated any more for you?

The book of Revelation is filled with symbolic language; the war in heaven between Michael and his angels and the Dragon and his angels is symbolic for Jesus and his messengers (the saints) fighting the war against the devil and his messengers. That is the same war Paul is referring to when he speaks of Christian warfare, the ongoing war we fight daily.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
elohiym said:
According to your interpretation there will be rebellion while he's reigning, being subdued while he's reigning. How will that look different than what we see happening now?



If you believe Him, you cannot die (Jn 11:26). How will death be defeated any more for you?

The book of Revelation is filled with symbolic language; the war in heaven between Michael and his angels and the Dragon and his angels is symbolic for Jesus and his messengers (the saints) fighting the war against the devil and his messengers. That is the same war Paul is referring to when he speaks of Christian warfare, the ongoing war we fight daily.
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The millenium as D'ism uses it, is a container in which to 'catch' literal OT prophecies that they think 'need to be fulfilled.' Never mind the descriptions (which are very few) in the Rev.
 
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