elohiym
Well-known member
That was a vision of a single man that was described with symbols. He didn't see a literal lamb, a literal beast, a literal dragon, etc.
ECT "For He must reign until ..."
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That was a vision of a single man that was described with symbols. He didn't see a literal lamb, a literal beast, a literal dragon, etc.
genuineoriginal
New member
You still haven't learned?
Never try to use an Aorist Indicative Greek verb to try to establish a timeline.
elohiym
Well-known member
Matthew 27:52-53 The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many.…
What resurrection is that? It certainly happened first.
elohiym
Well-known member
You can't answer the questions instead of lecturing me?
Let's try again ...
Colossians 1:13 For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son...
Were you rescued from the domain of darkness?
Were transferred to the kingdom of His beloved Son?
Does Christ reign in the kingdom of God's beloved Son?
genuineoriginal
New member
John literally saw a lamb, a beast, and a dragon.
In each case, the literal fulfillment of the symbol was explained to him.
The lamb is Christ, the beast is the son of perdition, and the dragon is the devil.
Every instance of symbolism in the Bible represents a literal fulfillment of that symbol.
genuineoriginal
New member
I understand the questions, they do not apply because of the Aorist Indicative Greek verb you are relying on to establish a timeline.
There is no way of telling from the verse whether God did something in the past, is doing something in the present, or is doing something in the future, the only thing that is certain is that at one time or another it will be done.
Never try to use an Aorist Indicative Greek verb to try to establish a timeline.
elohiym
Well-known member
Then answer them without considering that verse.
Are you still in the domain of darkness?
Are you presently in the kingdom of His beloved Son?
If yes, is Jesus reigning in the kingdom of His beloved Son?
elohiym
Well-known member
Then he didn't literally see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom because Jesus isn't literally a sheep.
genuineoriginal
New member
You missed a passage.
Revelation 19:11-16 11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. 12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. 13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords. |
genuineoriginal
New member
1 Thessalonians 5:2-9 2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. 4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. 5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. 6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober. 7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night. 8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation. 9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, |
There would be no point in continuing in the faith and going through much tribulation if I were already in the kingdom.
Acts 14:20-22 20 Howbeit, as the disciples stood round about him, he rose up, and came into the city: and the next day he departed with Barnabas to Derbe. 21 And when they had preached the gospel to that city, and had taught many, they returned again to Lystra, and to Iconium, and Antioch, 22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God. |
No, but you already know that.
When Jesus Christ manifests himself to the world he will establish his government over all the earth and there will be peace.
The twelve apostles will judge the twelve tribes of Israel.
The twelve apostles will judge the twelve tribes of Israel.
So Jesus said to them, "Assuredly I say to you that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel." (Matthew 19:28 NKJV)
elohiym
Well-known member
He is doing that presently through His followers.
"For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places."
His government was established before the cross.
"And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, 'All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,…'"
"Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion! Shout in triumph, O daughter of Jerusalem! Behold, your king is coming to you; He is just and endowed with salvation, Humble, and mounted on a donkey, Even on a colt, the foal of a donkey."
So the chief priests of the Jews were saying to Pilate, "Do not write, 'The King of the Jews'; but that He said, 'I am King of the Jews.'"
"There will be no end to the increase of His government or of peace, On the throne of David and over his kingdom, To establish it and to uphold it with justice and righteousness From then on and forevermore. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will accomplish this.
"Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion! Shout in triumph, O daughter of Jerusalem! Behold, your king is coming to you; He is just and endowed with salvation, Humble, and mounted on a donkey, Even on a colt, the foal of a donkey."
So the chief priests of the Jews were saying to Pilate, "Do not write, 'The King of the Jews'; but that He said, 'I am King of the Jews.'"
"There will be no end to the increase of His government or of peace, On the throne of David and over his kingdom, To establish it and to uphold it with justice and righteousness From then on and forevermore. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will accomplish this.
Cross Reference
New member
And when His "enemies are made His footstool", then what?
elohiym
Well-known member
"[T]hen comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power."
elohiym
Well-known member
I didn't claim the world was at peace, Jamie.
Isaiah 2:4 And He will judge between the nations, And will render decisions for many peoples; And they will hammer their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will not lift up sword against nation, And never again will they learn war.
It's a process. He doesn't one day just turn all the swords into plowshares. In fact, it states that "they" will hammer "their" swords into plowshare. That takes time, generations.
Cross Reference
New member
Very Good. And then what does the Father do?
"Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:" Ephesians 1:21 (KJV)
"Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Philippians 2:10-11 (KJV)
If we understand that correctly, where does it place the Man Jesus in the scheme things that Jesus now is called "Son of man" for all eternity and not Son of God"?
Interplanner
Well-known member
That's not the only thing he is called through all eternity. Where did you get the idea that was the only thing?
Cross Reference
New member
I well understand all the rest. My point was Jesus is never called Son of God. OK?
