First, an apology to GFR7. Then, about growing a TOL-grade thick skin.

[Rusha]

I guess anna and rusha don't want to answer.

Koban is on ignore ...

 

[Alexa]

I was and you responded to my post about it.

i beg to differ, what i responded to was your claim that someone can know how genuine a poster is in real life from a couple of years of online exchange. Genuineness and trolling are two different things, after all one can be a genuine troll

here:

compare the 2 bolded statements, thats the contradiction.

Honestly, and i'm not being snarky here, i am not sure where you see a contradiction.

As i said before, i don't think any of us can really know what the others are like AFK if our interaction is limited to forum exchange, no matter how long the exchange. people lie and have different agendas, which is why i prefer to focus on the content of the posts rather than judge the person behind them... the most you can do is judge someone's behaviour in relation to their posting only... but again this is not a reflection on what they are like AFK. Does this make sense?

... the person in question has posted on different forums sometimes posing as a man others a woman... pretended to be from different countries and different ages, and even went as far as to generate sock puppet accounts in order to agree with himself etc... it was all rather sad because he is actually a very bright man and although i have never exchanged any messages with him directly i thought his contribution to the forums was brilliant. i was actually pleased to see him post on this forum because i always loved his posts on science... and while i can't comment on what he is like in real life i can most certainly conclude that his is not a genuine poster even if his actual contribution to the forums remains consistent in its message... and while he himself may not hold true to this message, the message that he sends of staying true to Jesus Christ is all that matters. so i really am not sure where you see a contradiction. i hope i explained myself...

 

[patrick jane]

Sadly, I think this is very often the case. The internet's anonymity allows people to express those ugly inclinations that would otherwise be kept hidden from the general public.

And moreover, I think the medium reveals the things that a really going on in people's minds and hearts more clearly than those people very often realize. I have noted for a long time, now, how a person's writing reflects their thinking (including my own). If the writing is muddled and confused, so is the thinking it's attempting to express. If the writing is deliberately misleading, misrepresentative, and disingenuous, so is the thinking that inspired it. If the writing is both defensive and abrasive to excess, it's meant to protect the writer's ego rather than communicate with others.

On and on it goes.

If the eyes are windows into the soul, our writing is a window into our minds. And via the mind, into the heart. Sadly, what I think you are seeing here on TOL, is what is really in people's minds and hearts, much of the time.

Another excellent observation. we all know this, to some degree and it seems that it can't be stopped. we all see glimpses of the writer's heart and mind, but it quickly gets stifled and buried in negative drivel. I've tried mirroring people, so they see themselves, it only gets worse. However, I have seen MORE people loving and caring and TRYING lately. We will all reach a level of ignoring the "Spritually" Regressive and tuning in to the PROgressive

 

[patrick jane]

i beg to differ, what i responded to was your claim that someone can know how genuine a poster is in real life from a couple of years of online exchange. Genuineness and trolling are two different things, after all one can be a genuine troll


Honestly, and i'm not being snarky here, i am not sure where you see a contradiction.

As i said before, i don't think any of us can really know what the others are like AFK if our interaction is limited to forum exchange, no matter how long the exchange. people lie and have different agendas, which is why i prefer to focus on the content of the posts rather than judge the person behind them... the most you can do is judge someone's behaviour in relation to their posting only... but again this is not a reflection on what they are like AFK. Does this make sense?

... the person in question has posted on different forums sometimes posing as a man others a woman... pretended to be from different countries and different ages, and even went as far as to generate sock puppet accounts in order to agree with himself etc... it was all rather sad because he is actually a very bright man and although i have never exchanged any messages with him directly i thought his contribution to the forums was brilliant. i was actually pleased to see him post on this forum because i always loved his posts on science... and while i can't comment on what he is like in real life i can most certainly conclude that his is not a genuine poster even if his actual contribution to the forums remains consistent in its message... and while he himself may not hold true to this message, the message that he sends of staying true to Jesus Christ is all that matters. so i really am not sure where you see a contradiction. i hope i explained myself...

SEASIGH ?

 

[Arthur Brain]

The first reason I made this thread was because I needed to make an apology for not being a fine person. lain:

But when I started writing the OP, a lot that has been on my mind came along. I said something to someone recently about not being afraid to do some introspection, to check himself, check his motivations. I had to do the same thing too, I can't just tell other people to do it and not do it myself.

It takes character to apologize and to acknowledge shortcomings and you have more than I to be quite honest - character that is.

 

[Town Heretic]

It takes character to apologize and to acknowledge shortcomings

And in some cases it would take a great deal more time...What, I'm just sayin'.

and you have more than I to be quite honest - character that is.

Well...you're quite one, which in some circles is even better. :think: Admittedly those circles are mostly found in penal institutions, but beggars can't be choosers.

I've ruined everything, haven't I. lain:

 

[Son of Jack]

have you ever actually read the Bible?

I have, a few times. In the prophets, God saves his harshest language for those who were supposed to be leaders, those who were supposed to know the truth, and yet were self-righteous idolaters. Jesus did the same to the Pharisees and Sadducees for the same reasons. There was a similarity between those groups of people: they led the people astray.

 

[annabenedetti]

It all boils down to the context we choose, optimism or cynicism. I don't know how we can love our neighbor and suspect him of being the worst sort, on average.

TH, it's not a matter of suspecting someone of being the worst sort when they're very publicly and unambiguously behaving like the worst sort. There's no guesswork involved. Or an accidental misread.

So loving anyway, in the face of that? Yes. I find it very hard to love that.

 

[annabenedetti]

I have, a few times. In the prophets, God saves his harshest language for those who were supposed to be leaders, those who were supposed to know the truth, and yet were self-righteous idolaters. Jesus did the same to the Pharisees and Sadducees for the same reasons. There was a similarity between those groups of people: they led the people astray.

Thank you for this.

And I'm so happy to see you.

 

[Town Heretic]

TH, it's not a matter of suspecting someone of being the worst sort when they're very publicly and unambiguously behaving like the worst sort. There's no guesswork involved. Or an accidental misread.

And there's no rule there. Just an anecdotal sample built to distort perception by drawing in a disproportionate group of drum bangers, mostly. It's just a section of the symphony.

So loving anyway, in the face of that? Yes. I find it very hard to love that.

I imagine when you strip away our self editing we'd all be hard to love at one time or another...maybe most of the time. Thank God for self editing and grace, no?

 

[patrick jane]

The first reason I made this thread was because I needed to make an apology for not being a fine person. lain:

But when I started writing the OP, a lot that has been on my mind came along. I said something to someone recently about not being afraid to do some introspection, to check himself, check his motivations. I had to do the same thing too, I can't just tell other people to do it and not do it myself.

Awesome - I have been saying "SELF" alot on various posts and threads, stressing that it worked wonders for me, to Pray and self-analyze, and of course, read the Bible. I stopped blaming people and things and looked at myself first. I believe everyone needs to examine their OWN motives and thought processes, and whenever possible - Think WWJD - I know if I allow God to Work in me, instead of me looking for splinters, it "feels" much better

 

[annabenedetti]

Koban is on ignore ...

Rusha, I have to tell you that when I wrote the OP, I had it in my mind that you were deserving of an apology from GFR as well, but I didn't write that in and I should have. I'm sorry for not making that happen, and sorry to get this in so late in the thread.

You're a very, very ethical person and while you've disagreed with him strongly on a number of occasions and will continue to (for good reasons) you've very clear in your reasons why, and I didn't ever see you say or imply what he said you did. I wanted to tell you that here, but I'm also going to put it in the other thread.

 

[patrick jane]

And in some cases it would take a great deal more time...What, I'm just sayin'.


Well...you're quite one, which in some circles is even better. :think: Admittedly those circles are mostly found in penal institutions, but beggars can't be choosers.

I've ruined everything, haven't I. lain:

Yes. when you chose 2 other words instead of Prison. Funny, I might could use you on my writing Staff

 

[Rusha]

Rusha, I have to tell you that when I wrote the OP, I had it in my mind that you were deserving of an apology from GFR as well, but I didn't write that in and I should have. I'm sorry for not making that happen, and sorry to get this in so late in the thread.

You're a very, very ethical person and while you've disagreed with him strongly on a number of occasions and will continue to (for good reasons) you've very clear in your reasons why, and I didn't ever see you say or imply what he said you did. I wanted to tell you that here, but I'm also going to put it in the other thread.

Not a problem, and thanks. He understands perfectly well why his posts are so offensive and continues to shrug it off with "that's just your opinion".

 

[bybee]

Koban is on ignore ...

Sod is on ignorant....

 

[chrysostom]

I don't want to call it thick skin
but
I have developed something that allowed me to take some 70 posters off my ignore list
and
now I don't react so easily
but
I still react to what I think are dangerous beliefs

I will never be comfortable with the attacks on the Church
but
I am able to ignore many of them

so don't call it thick skin
and
don't ever lose your sensitivity

 

[PureX]

TH, it's not a matter of suspecting someone of being the worst sort when they're very publicly and unambiguously behaving like the worst sort. There's no guesswork involved. Or an accidental misread.

So loving anyway, in the face of that? Yes. I find it very hard to love that.

Actually, I might agree with TH a little bit on this one.

Just because someone thinks and behaves badly, does not automatically mean they are bad people. In fact, in pretty much any instance I can think of in my life where I've gotten to know someone who tended to think and behave badly, they were not really bad individuals. They were screwed up individuals. And they are sometimes dangerous individuals. But they weren't bad by nature. They were bad by way of illness and dysfunction.

And I think that when we understand this to be the case, we can separate the person from the behavior. And see that the behavior is symptomatic of a 'broken' personality.

That doesn't excuse them of their bad thought and behavior. That doesn't mean we should tolerate it. And that doesn't mean we have to try and "fix" them, either. But it will help us not to condemn them as human beings, in our own hearts and minds, because of how they think and behave.

I find this takes some persistent practice to remember and maintain, on my part. But I do believe I'm getting better at it, as time goes by.

 

[chrysostom]

And I think that when we understand this to be the case, we can separate the person from the behavior.

we are what we do
and
there is certain behavior that cannot be fixed or tolerated

pedophilia comes to mind

one strike and you are out
all we can do
is put them away

 

[Granite]

How are you defining 'trolling' and 'genuine' in the context of this thread?

Because I think Granite's point is that the meanness people display on TOL is genuine, and how they act outside the internet is tempered because of the potential consequences.

Hit the nail on the head, friendo.

 

[PureX]

Awesome - I have been saying "SELF" alot on various posts and threads, stressing that it worked wonders for me, to Pray and self-analyze, and of course, read the Bible. I stopped blaming people and things and looked at myself first. I believe everyone needs to examine their OWN motives and thought processes, and whenever possible - Think WWJD - I know if I allow God to Work in me, instead of me looking for splinters, it "feels" much better

Step 10 of the 12 steps of AA: "Continued to take personal inventory, and when we were wrong, promptly admitted it."

The reason I mention this, is that the purpose of the 12 steps of Alcoholics Anonymous is to teach alcoholics, who's minds have been 'broken' by the disease of alcoholism, how to recover their sanity, again, so that they can live as happy, functional human beings.

And those steps were derived, originally, from a global religious conference held in New York City at the turn of the last century, that was intent on developing a universal course of behaviors and practices for the purpose of spiritual enlightenment.

Rigorous and routine self-examination of our thoughts and behaviors is an essential aspect of our spiritual growth and maturity. Sadly, this is something that seems to be seriously lacking in modern religious Christianity. In fact, the whole idea of humility as a fundamental spiritual goal/attribute seems to have been lost to modern Christians.