ECT Everything about justification?
- Thread starter Jacob
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Interplanner
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Justification is an ongoing need and confession--Col 1:22-23.
Sanctification is only a bit at a time. You asked if there has been some, past tense. yes, there has. But I asked if it was ever perfect and the answer is no.
Col 3: we have died to sin in Christ, but...we have to put to death sins.
It saying the same thing.
Rom 8 is saying that justification from our sins is the greatest gift from God after the confusing struggles of chs 6 and 7, not before.
Sanctification is only a bit at a time. You asked if there has been some, past tense. yes, there has. But I asked if it was ever perfect and the answer is no.
Col 3: we have died to sin in Christ, but...we have to put to death sins.
It saying the same thing.
Rom 8 is saying that justification from our sins is the greatest gift from God after the confusing struggles of chs 6 and 7, not before.
I don't believe justification is ever a future thing for the Christian, so it is not ongoing. It is only past tense. I can tell that it will require more for you to understand it. You either simply do not understand it, or you have not yet been justified. There is no other option because it is wrong that justification is ongoing as you have said that it is. Also look at the phrase, "have been sanctified".
Acts 26:18 NASB - 18 to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.'
1 Corinthians 1:2 NASB - 2 To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours:
Hebrews 10:10 NASB - 10 By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Interplanner
Well-known member
As Col 1 says, God doesn't justify a person who doesn't think they need it. You might call this the divine cure for pride. It outlasts everything.
Interplanner
Well-known member
Justification is like the granting of the cancellation of the millions of debt in Mt 18. But we know that the real work which supports this was 2000 years ago. Yes, we realize it in our lives by His spirit, but realizing is not the real work that gives it value, is it?
God can justify whomever He pleases. A person can only be justified by the blood of Jesus. A person cannot be justified apart from faith.
Interplanner
Well-known member
Untellectual,
of course. All I'm addressing is that if a person is proud and does not think they need justification through Christ, they don't get it. The previous post tried to say that one a person is justified in their lifetime, that's all there is to the doctrine. The NT picture is more like the manna of the ancient children of Israel; needs to be collected each day, because we sin each day. If someone does not think they need justification in an ongoing way, I don't think they are truthful about themselves or the NT.
of course. All I'm addressing is that if a person is proud and does not think they need justification through Christ, they don't get it. The previous post tried to say that one a person is justified in their lifetime, that's all there is to the doctrine. The NT picture is more like the manna of the ancient children of Israel; needs to be collected each day, because we sin each day. If someone does not think they need justification in an ongoing way, I don't think they are truthful about themselves or the NT.
You are either justified or you are not.
Sometimes a person will come up with that sanctification is an ongoing process. But you even say this about justification.
Acts 26:18 NASB - 18 to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.'
1 Corinthians 1:2 NASB - 2 To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours:
Hebrews 10:10 NASB - 10 By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Interplanner
Well-known member
'Simul justus et peccator' said Luther. We are at the same time righteous and sinful.
The righteousness of justification is credit toward debt. Debt is past failure. And today's present will be tomorrow's past, right? The righteousness of Christ is imputed. It is not inherent, not intrinsic, not inside us. Luther called it the 'alien' righteousness, because it is in Christ alone. That is why he made this declaration from Rom 7.
If you don't think you need that, you are not justified. But even if you are believing that, you aren't perfect; sanctification just slogs away at the daily struggle.
Justification is not a process or battle like sanctification. We either embrace what Christ offers because we realize our desparate need, or we despise it because of all that it implies about us.
The righteousness of justification is credit toward debt. Debt is past failure. And today's present will be tomorrow's past, right? The righteousness of Christ is imputed. It is not inherent, not intrinsic, not inside us. Luther called it the 'alien' righteousness, because it is in Christ alone. That is why he made this declaration from Rom 7.
If you don't think you need that, you are not justified. But even if you are believing that, you aren't perfect; sanctification just slogs away at the daily struggle.
Justification is not a process or battle like sanctification. We either embrace what Christ offers because we realize our desparate need, or we despise it because of all that it implies about us.
Romans 2:13 NASB - 13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.
Romans 3:4, 20, 24, 28, 30 NASB - 4 May it never be! Rather, let God be found true, though every man be found a liar, as it is written, "THAT YOU MAY BE JUSTIFIED IN YOUR WORDS, AND PREVAIL WHEN YOU ARE JUDGED." ... 20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin. ... 24 being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; ... 28 For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. ... 30 since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one.
Romans 4:2, 25 NASB - 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. ... 25 He who was delivered over because of our transgressions, and was raised because of our justification.
Romans 5:1, 9, 16, 18 NASB - 1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, ... 9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him. ... 16 The gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned; for on the one hand the judgment arose from one transgression resulting in condemnation, but on the other hand the free gift arose from many transgressions resulting in justification. ... 18 So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.
Romans 8:30 NASB - 30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.
1 Corinthians 6:11 NASB - 11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.
Justification is not based on need. We all need justification.
Interplanner
Well-known member
Justification is based on an admission of need, for sure. "God be merciful to me a sinner!"
If a person doesn't think they need the infinite righteousness of Christ, they don't gain it.
I hope you aren't treating humans as automatae that God saves or not without any response because he has already programmed them!
If a person doesn't think they need the infinite righteousness of Christ, they don't gain it.
I hope you aren't treating humans as automatae that God saves or not without any response because he has already programmed them!
A person does not justify their own self. It is impossible to be justified on account of your works (alone). It makes no sense to add faith to works. A person does not gain righteousness. You cannot earn justification by admitting your need. No one is programming anyone. God is God and none of us are God. Then each person should repent and believe the gospel. But it is God who justifies.
Romans 8:33 NASB - 33 Who will bring a charge against God's elect? God is the one who justifies;
Interplanner
Well-known member
It is impossible to be justified by anything of your own. It is only possible on the basis of what Christ accomplished.
If you allow 'not your works (alone)' it sounds like some are needed...
If you allow 'not your works (alone)' it sounds like some are needed...
No. It means you are justified by the blood of Jesus, not your works. You are justified by faith, not the works of the Law. A person is justified by faith and works, but not works without faith. That is, the works are the result of faith, or come along with faith in the Christian believer. They do not cause the faith. The faith is not works. Saving faith is not a work. It is not works.
heir
TOL Subscriber
We are justified by the faith of Jesus Christ.
Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Christ was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
Romans 4:25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
The Bible does say that we are justified by faith.
heir
TOL Subscriber
Yes, Christ's! Galatians 2:16 KJV Romans 5:1 KJV
If the verses are saying that. But there are other verses that say we are justified by faith.