Eschatological Response
- Thread starter Nameless.In.Grace
- Start date
What?
To attempt to decide the saved from the unsaved amongst us with our human minds, or to even use scripture to decide the saved from the unsaved is bad.
There is only ONE Word of God, and He is the Just Judge of Love, Mercy, Compassion and Supremely Perfect Justice.
Not true. God gave a sign to identify those who love him. Look for the sign.
Eschatological Response
Jamie,
I am not here to convince you to personally stop judging the saved from the unsaved, although I can promise I will continually warn against it.
I myself will continually remind myself that Gods work is greater than my work and His work is Salvation, my work is Faith, hope and Love.
As far as the sign:
John 3:8Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
8 The wind[a] blows where it pleases, and you hear its sound, but you don’t know where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”
Jamie,
I am not here to convince you to personally stop judging the saved from the unsaved, although I can promise I will continually warn against it.
I myself will continually remind myself that Gods work is greater than my work and His work is Salvation, my work is Faith, hope and Love.
As far as the sign:
John 3:8Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
8 The wind[a] blows where it pleases, and you hear its sound, but you don’t know where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”
So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty. (James 2:12)
There is a difference in judging a person and judging his or her actions, We are all judged by what we say and do.
God's sign of his people: "It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever, for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed."
(Exodus 31:17)
God set an example he intended for us to follow. It's easy to tell the sheep from the goats. His sheep follow his voice. (John 10:4)
Epoisses
New member
The five religions that fell in the 1st century were Judaism, Islam (though it wasn't called that back then), Mysticism, Paganism and Atheism. Christianity is the one that still reigns and some kind of new world order that will unite all religions together is the one to come. Judaism received it's deadly wound with the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple by the sword of the Roman armies but in our day the deadly wound is beginning to heal. It will not be fully healed until the 3rd temple is reconstructed in the holy land..
Interplanner
Well-known member
Take the lead of Christ: there is only the interp of Dan 8:13 etc about the 'rebellion that desolates.' that took place in the trauma of the 1st century.
It was not until the 1800s that people started using the Bible like a 'safe' form of Nostradamus. This completely changed the meaning of prophecy, which before meant a sort of preparatory vision that had its ultimate reality in Christ and his Gospel. After the 1800s it meant a prescience about today's news headlines.
There is no evidence anywhere in the ordinary-language passages of the Nt that there is any thing that needs to happen in a future Israel for the judgement day of God to take place.
Daniel's is probably referring to principalities and powers and is way beyond what we think; all we need to know about it is in Eph 3.
Epoisses
New member
That's why the book of Daniel is sealed until the time of the end. The time of the end began 2000 years ago, right?
Mysticism was alive and kicking in Paul's day. Judaism as well. No, the five former Roman fazes of government represent the fourth beast of Daniel's vision, the fourth gentile empire. There are some who claim that the Roman Empire will be revived but that need not be so because the fourth beast began it's dominance during the stage of imperialism.
We are in the two legged stage of Nebacadnezzar's man which is the east and west axis of power of that fourth beast that began when Rome split into two capitals with Constantinople in the east and Rome in the west.
The Magog invasion will result in the destruction of the two legged stage and will bring in a one world government that will quickly divide into 10 divisions represented by the 10 toes/10 horns.
Antichrist arises from one of the ten and takes control of all which brings about the 4th and final stage of the fourth beast - the antichrist stage.
Sent from my iPhone using TOL
Interplanner
Well-known member
But not to be a prognostication of all history. The only thing we have for sure in Christ's interp is how the figure of Dan 8 would ruin Israel, which continues to be mentioned through ch 9.
The kingdom made without human hands back in 2 is here since Christ came, and 'upset the whole Roman world' as Acts 26 says--that's how it toppled the 4th kingdom of that vision. It was not referring to a state as we know it, but to the power of the Gospel on men.
Epoisses
New member
The heads are religious in nature not secular. The ten horns are secular. The heads also represent fallen angels who will appear one after another in the last days. Each one will represent a religion that men worship today so they will all claim to be gods. Satan will impersonate Christ so that could either be Judaism or Christianity. Another angel will most likely come as Muhammad and assume control over the Muslim world. Buddha or Vishnu would be the likely candidate for Mysticism. The others are harder to pin down. The important thing to realize is that every religion or god that people worship today will be represented by the seven heads.
Epoisses
New member
Chap. 1-6 were historical. Chap. 7-12 are apocalyptic.
Epoisses
New member
When you abandon the historical ideas of the past and go all future the possibilities are endless.
Interplanner
Well-known member
I doubt if that works either. Ch 2 mentions a kingdom coming not made by human hands that undoes all those existing.
Interplanner
Well-known member
The futurism of it comes from the 19th century popular belief that Bible (ie the Rev) is a complete map of the future. A sort of safe Nostradamus method.
Interplanner
Well-known member
The possibilities are actually pointless. People have been trying to 'pin it down' for 200 years and have gone bonkers. That is not what it is about.
Yes, there is a time of harrassment of the believers at the end of time, Rev 20, but it is everywhere.
You should not abnandone the historical ideas of the past--the ones Christ said it meant when he explained who the person was who was going to desolate Israel in that generation, and did. By PRESERVING the historical in 1805, the preacher Peter Holford decimated the skeptic Thomas Payne with his exposition of Mt 24 and the amazing details of the destruction of Israel that Christ predicted in that generation.
The figures you mentioned (angels/heads) are principalities and powers, and we know almost nothing nor are we supposed to. The important practical thing is Eph 3 in which the unity of Christians baffles the principalities who are apparently intent on causing all peoples to be in conflict, death and destruction.