Eschatological Response

Nameless.In.Grace

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The seven heads have five that are fallen one that is and one that will come. List all seven and we'll see if it is biblical.

This must be paired with Revelation.

Revelation 17:11King James Version (KJV)
11*And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

In quick answer to Eposisses,

Note Ruled, is used to mean, used by God to chastise, disrupt and even, sometimes literally Rule)

Egypt ruled over Israel (Empire Fell)
Assyria ruled over Israel (Empire Fell)
Babylon ruled over Israel (Empire Fell)
Persia Ruled over Israel (Empire Fell)
Greece Ruled over Israel (Empire Fell)
Rome ruled over Israel... Is (Was at time of writing) and Fell at Constantinople's defeat by the:
Ottoman Empire ruled over Israel


See more in reference to this to understand why the fall of Rome is misexplained:

Henri Pirenne

Belgian historian Henri Pirenne published the "Pirenne Thesis" in the 1920s which remains influential to this day. It holds that the Empire continued, in some form, up until the time of the Arab conquests in the seventh century,[6] which disrupted Mediterranean trade routes, leading to a decline in the European economy. This theory stipulates the rise of the Frankish Realm in Europe as a continuation of the Roman Empire, and thus legitimizes the crowning of Charlemagne as the first Holy Roman Emperor as a continuation of the Imperial Roman State. Some modern historians, such as Michael Grant, subscribe to this theory at least in part - Grant lists Charles Martel's victory at the Battle of Tours halting the Islamic conquest era and saving Europe as a macrohistorical event in the history of Rome.

However, some critics maintain the "Pirenne Thesis" erred in claiming the Carolingian Realm as a Roman State, and mainly dealt with the Islamic conquests and their effect on the Byzantine or Eastern Empire.

Remember, man is proud and the idea that men upon men could be wrong that the Roman Empire is the Beast, by false assertion throughout modern Western Eschatological claims that Rome fell at the Decline of the government and rise at the shift to the Church as government.

Note that this was a shift and not a decline.

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This means at the time of the end, the 7 will have fully been seen, but one of them will emerge from all regions of the 7. This is obvious in the fact that the beast shares one geographical body.

Pair this with the clay feet of the statute of Daniel that is clearly the last kingdom and you will note the kingdoms are divided and yet bound. This would be easily explained by kingdoms divided by an anti Christ religion that seeks to instill Law over the whole globe, rejects that Jesus died on the Cross and was one with the Father or from the father, or however you theologically explain that Jesus is YHWH.

The key to prophesy is Israel. God has always elected that land as His, and any who question His dealings with it are always in opposition to Him.

God speaks Geographically in a continual fashion, and Israel is a constant reference in prophesy.

It is a constant theme throughout the OT. When the Jews disobey, He corrects them with forces that are of other Gods and ruled by man.

Forces of very constant regions continually try to overtake God's tiny anointed sliver of land where He ultimately arises from as Jesus.

It starts with Abraham traveling away from a land of other Gods. He, a Semite, is where the reference Semite is derived from.

The bible clearly defines Egypt as the King of the South, and follows her lands throughout the OT. Her lands as they are taken by other empires remain in stable geographical reference with the region south of Israel.
- A crucial point comes in that Egypt is elected by God to
be part of the mechanism that is used for Israel.
- In the end, it elects man as God and attempts to
Subvert God's plan with Israel.

The Assyrian is referred to as the king of the North and is directly relatable as the King of the North through reference to all of the OT land and the prophesies in Daniel and Psalms. This is even more obvious in light of Isaiah prophesying far beyond the immediate occurrences of Israel of the time.

Isaiah 7:17-20

"The LORD will bring on you, on your people, and on your father's house such days as have never come since the day that Ephraim separated from Judah, the king of Assyria." In that day the LORD will whistle for the fly that is in the remotest part of the rivers of Egypt and for the bee that is in the land of Assyria. They will all come and settle on the steep ravines, on the ledges of the cliffs, on all the thorn bushes and on all the watering places.

Isaiah 8:4
Verse*Concepts
for before the boy knows how to cry out 'My father' or 'My mother,' the wealth of Damascus and the spoil of Samaria will be carried away before the king of Assyria."
Isaiah 8:7-8

"Now therefore, behold, the Lord is about to bring on them the strong and abundant waters of the Euphrates, Even the king of Assyria and all his glory; And it will rise up over all its channels and go over all its banks. "Then it will sweep on into Judah, it will overflow and pass through, It will reach even to the neck; And the spread of its wings will fill the breadth of your land, O Immanuel. (NOTE God with us here.)

Isaiah 10:5
Verse*Concepts
Woe to Assyria, the rod of My anger And the staff in whose hands is My indignation,

Isaiah 10:12
Verse*Concepts
So it will be that when the Lord has completed all His work on Mount Zion and on Jerusalem, He will say, "I will punish the fruit of the arrogant heart of the king of Assyria and the pomp of his haughtiness."

Isaiah 11:11
Verse*Concepts
Then it will happen on that day that the Lord Will again recover the second time with His hand The remnant of His people, who will remain, From Assyria, Egypt, Pathros, Cush, Elam, Shinar, Hamath, And from the islands of the sea.

Isaiah 11:16
Verse*Concepts
And there will be a highway from Assyria For the remnant of His people who will be left, Just as there was for Israel In the day that they came up out of the land of Egypt.

Isaiah 19:23-25

In that day there will be a highway from Egypt to Assyria, and the Assyrians will come into Egypt and the Egyptians into Assyria, and the Egyptians will worship with the Assyrians. In that day Israel will be the third party with Egypt and Assyria, a blessing in the midst of the earth, whom the LORD of hosts has blessed, saying, "Blessed is Egypt My people, and Assyria the work of My hands, and Israel My inheritance."

Isaiah 20:4-6

so the king of Assyria will lead away the captives of Egypt and the exiles of Cush, young and old, naked and barefoot with buttocks uncovered, to the shame of Egypt. "Then they will be dismayed and ashamed because of Cush their hope and Egypt their boast. "So the inhabitants of this coastland will say in that day, 'Behold, such is our hope, where we fled for help to be delivered from the king of Assyria; and we, how shall we escape?'"

Isaiah 23:13
Verse*Concepts
Behold, the land of the Chaldeans--this is the people which was not; Assyria appointed it for desert creatures--they erected their siege towers, they stripped its palaces, they made it a ruin.

Isaiah 27:12-13

In that day the LORD will start His threshing from the flowing stream of the Euphrates to the brook of Egypt, and you will be gathered up one by one, O sons of Israel. It will come about also in that day that a great trumpet will be blown, and those who were perishing in the land of Assyria and who were scattered in the land of Egypt will come and worship the LORD in the holy mountain at Jerusalem.

Isaiah 30:31-32

For at the voice of the LORD Assyria will be terrified, When He strikes with the rod. And every blow of the rod of punishment, Which the LORD will lay on him, Will be with the music of tambourines and lyres; And in battles, brandishing weapons, He will fight them.

Isaiah 31:8-9

And the Assyrian will fall by a sword not of man, And a sword not of man will devour him So he will not escape the sword, And his young men will become forced laborers. "His rock will pass away because of panic, And his princes will be terrified at the standard," Declares the LORD, whose fire is in Zion and whose furnace is in Jerusalem.

Zechariah 10:9-12. ( Here is a future Prophesy that refers to the diaspora and the attack involving Assyrian and Egyptian collusion. This is clearly a future prophesy )

"When I scatter them among the peoples, They will remember Me in far countries, And they with their children will live and come back. "I will bring them back from the land of Egypt And gather them from Assyria; And I will bring them into the land of Gilead and Lebanon Until no room can be found for them. "And they will pass through the sea of distress And He will strike the waves in the sea, So that all the depths of the Nile will dry up; And the pride of Assyria will be brought down And the scepter of Egypt will depart.

Daniel makes the rest easy as he clearly sees 4 beasts which have been prophetically identified as the obvious. These 4 also rise against Israel and even to the point where Israel is cursed with the name Philistine, now known as the Palestine/Israeli debate.

Refer to this for an in depth explanation:

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/palname.html

Babylon

Persia

Greece

Rome

Of course Rome was taken as a unification of Government and Pauline Christianity ( Please check me online for yourself what I mean by Pauline Christianity )

This Rome had two popes. A Religious Pope and a Military Pope

The Military Pope was stationed out of Constantinople.

He fell by the Ottoman Empire which was unified by the message of Mohammed who taught that Muslims were the true followers of God by Moses and Christians were deceived by their ideas as Mohammed continually assert that Jesus is not God, and that Jesus did not die on a cross.

1 John 2:

22 Who is the liar, if not the one who denies that Jesus is the Messiah? This one is the antichrist: the one who denies the Father and the Son. 23*No one who denies the Son can have the Father; he who confesses the Son has the Father as well.

Note the major definition of the Anti Christ is given here, and all others.

This moves forward to the fact that the crusades were launched in response to the Ottoman Empire because it had taken Palestine/Israel.

The Ottoman empire encompassed geographical land of 6 empires I listed earlier, which are indeed biblical to a direct geographical nature.

Now, if you research the Ottoman empires direct impact on Christians and Jews, you will see why it meets the requirements of a BEAST force.

Daniel even prophesied that people would get this one wrong, by the decree of God, that His plan would continue forward. It specifically alludes to roaming about, instead of keeping to the biblical geography in a very easy to grasp way.

Daniel 12:

But you, Daniel, keep these words secret and seal the book until the time of the end. Many will roam about, and knowledge will increase.”
5*Then I, Daniel, looked, and two others were standing there, one on this bank of the river and one on the other. 6*One of them said to the man dressed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, “How long until the end of these extraordinary things?” 7*Then I heard the man dressed in linen, who was above the waters of the river. He raised both his hands toward heaven and swore by Him who lives eternallythat it would be for a time, times, and half a time. When the power of the holy people is shattered, all these things will be completed.

And indeed people went to teachings of man to try to decode the Daniel prophecy, and completely left the biblical flow of prophecy by building on teaching of man after teaching of man. Biblical commentaries have even become a lens through which people read the bible, instead of praying that the Holy Spirit personally teach them, as instructed in 1 John:*

1 John 2:27King James Version (KJV)

27*But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

It must be noted that there is much more about this if you personally read prophesy and look into the exact biblical geography.

I could write much more on this, but I will leave you with this: (10 Horns)

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You must research the Ottoman empires destruction and enslavement of Jews and Christians to fully understand this.

This was the largest Empire ever, and it was ruled by a single Caliphate from Turkey. This is an extension of Mohammed in a direct fashion. The Qu'ran was essentially expanded on and created through Mohammed's generals and of coarse many Caliphates through time.

I recommend you see that Islamic Prophesy says Jesus (Issa to them) will come and usher in the end times, but this is a false Jesus that is directly in meeting of the stipulations of Our Anti Christ. He is essentially an Evil Jesus that denies He is God and slaughters Jews and Christians and all that deny Islam (Slavery or Submission) to its rule, law and teaching that Mohammed was the last prophet and The final revelation to Moses's true followers.

And they even prophesy that they will kill the False Jesus that died on the Cross. This is their exact eschatological beliefs.

Note that they believe themselves to be descendants of Ishmael.
 
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Nameless.In.Grace

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Eschatological Response


This is not for those that don't have time to study, and stay informed on biblical developments that can be well backed by scripture. This is for those with time to theologically study to find a major development in eschatology.

I used the King James thinking of you.

Why so quick to dismiss the time I took?
 

Nameless.In.Grace

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Eschatological Response

I will read it

Patrick Jane! Thank You! I wouldn't have taken the time if I didn't deeply believe it was worth the time. Um... Sorry it's so long, but I know it's a touchy subject, and I felt it would take a ton of info to begin to convey.

Um... Would you believe this is merely a fraction of scripture and history that this is referring to that is constant? Yup... Would have had to quote scripture the size of a book.. Lol...

Watch someone say there's not enough.
 

Nameless.In.Grace

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Eschatological Response

Sigh, if anyone claims to be scholarly in scripture and enjoys study, debate and the idea that Mans majority ideas about what God says are many times different than what He is saying, please dive into this and leave a comment.

Any Scholars on eschatology here?
 

Epoisses

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Sigh, if anyone claims to be scholarly in scripture and enjoys study, debate and the idea that Mans majority ideas about what God says are many times different than what He is saying, please dive into this and leave a comment.

Any Scholars on eschatology here?

One of the heads still reigns today (Christianity) and one is yet to come. Remember the heads are religious in nature and the horns are secular. Church and state will combine in the seven heads and ten horns that will rule the world in the last days. Also the bible says the ten horns have received no kingdom as yet but receive power for one hour or the last hour with the beast. The ten horns haven't even showed up yet.
 

Nameless.In.Grace

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Eschatological Response

One of the heads still reigns today (Christianity) and one is yet to come. Remember the heads are religious in nature and the horns are secular. Church and state will combine in the seven heads and ten horns that will rule the world in the last days. Also the bible says the ten horns have received no kingdom as yet but receive power for one hour or the last hour with the beast. The ten horns haven't even showed up yet.

Um, why are beasts empires, while teachings of man have Christianity accusing itself in the exact thinking that you just used? Did you even read what I posted and bother to study in scripture to refute my words?

Not picking on you, but that answer won't cut it.

In fact, from the very bible, beasts are defined as empires and heads are splits and crowns or horns are defined as kings.

Must I throw out what the bible teaches to understand the bible, or more specifically what the Spirit consistently teaches.

Consider the Beasts and heads of Daniel. Not religions.
 
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Epoisses

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Um, why are beasts empires, while teachings of man have Christianity accusing itself in the exact thinking that you just used? Did you even read what I posted and bother to study in scripture to refute my words?

Not picking on you, but that answer won't cut it.

In fact, from the very bible, beasts are defined as empires and heads are defined as kings.

Must I throw out what the bible teaches to understand the bible, or more specifically what the Spirit consistently teaches.

Consider the Beasts and heads of Daniel. Not religions.

Beasts are not empires. Gabriel was in a battle with the prince of Persia (ram) for 21 days and this prince actually prevented him from coming to Daniel in answer to prayer. The ram is not an ancient kingdom. Rev. 5 gives us a picture of a Lamb with seven horns and seven eyes. Is this an ancient kingdom?
 

Nameless.In.Grace

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Beasts are not empires. Gabriel was in a battle with the prince of Persia (ram) for 21 days and this prince actually prevented him from coming to Daniel in answer to prayer. The ram is not an ancient kingdom. Rev. 5 gives us a picture of a Lamb with seven horns and seven eyes. Is this an ancient kingdom?

Interesting. Who is the prince of Persia?
 

Nameless.In.Grace

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Eschatological Response

The ram which you saw, having the two horns — they are the kings of Media and Persia. (Daniel 8:20)​

This is correct. The ram is the Kingdom and the 2 horns show of two kings.

One for Media and one for Persia.

This is crucial because this light of prophecy shows immediately that the bible is not only valid, but it's prophetic power extends beyond current knowledge of men.

We can see the bible being easy to comprehend in light of this, instead of only understandable by men, scholars and denominations.

This literally shows origin of the chaos in our world. I.e. Israel at governmental Focus and the kingdoms of the anti Christ rising against her.

It is happening and setting up before our very eyes as if we were still in Old Testament times.
 

Epoisses

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The ram which you saw, having the two horns — they are the kings of Media and Persia. (Daniel 8:20)​

And the prince of Persia fought with Gabriel (an angel) for 21 days. Did Cyrus the Great do battle the angel Gabriel?
 

Nameless.In.Grace

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So maybe there's more to Daniel than a bunch of historical kingdoms that turned to dust thousands of years ago.

True, but know that western eschatology has had its day for far too long.

Please at least give this a chance as a maybe.

Many of our Christian brothers and sisters are dying across the ocean, or at home if you are in the East.

If you are not in the east, and don't know what is going on right now, I severely recommend you open your heart to the possibility that this has merit.

For goodness sakes, the bible, Christianity and Judaism are all Eastern in origin.
 

Epoisses

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True, but know that western eschatology has had its day for far too long.

Please at least give this a chance as a maybe.

Many of our Christian brothers and sisters are dying across the ocean, or at home if you are in the East.

If you are not in the east, and don't know what is going on right now, I severely recommend you open your heart to the possibility that this has merit.

I started out as a historicist in my eschatology 25 years ago until I abandoned it as worthless. I'm quite familiar with it.
 
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