Eliminating Dispensationalism

[glorydaz]

Shalom.

Obedience to or observance of God's Law is not about guilt. If you are guilty you ought to repent and obey God's commands. Depending on what you have done you will need to do something according to the Law. There may be a sacrifice (without a temple for sacrifice you can pray) and if you have stolen anything you will have to make that right according to the Law. If a believer has offended you or sinned, forgive and follow the Biblical pattern (see Matthew 18:15-17).

Shalom.

Jacob

I can see you selectively read the Holy Scriptures.

You're as blind as the rest of Israel is.

 

[glorydaz]

Where do you find the ones who you say you follow, the scribes and the Pharisees who sit in Moses' seat?:

"Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not" (Mt.23:1-3).​

He has an active imagination. :sigh:

 

[Jacob]

Where do you find the ones who you say you follow, the scribes and the Pharisees who sit in Moses' seat?:

"Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not" (Mt.23:1-3).​

Shalom.

In answer to your question, I observe the Torah and I have been doing so with others who do the same. But my observance is not their observance. My point was that I obey Jesus, Yeshua, about observing the Law.

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[Interplanner]

Dispensations are mentioned 3 times by the Apostle Paul. Perhaps you should read a New Testament.
As well, the concept is taught by the disciples of the disciples/apostles (Early Church Fathers).
You obviously are of Replacement Theology. Replacement Theology was created by the early Catholics.

Modern RT is a cover up for not understanding Gal 3:17 properly which is the original replacement problem to be concerned with.

 

[tetelestai]

According to Romans chapters 9,10,11 the Jews have been "cut off" from God.
There is no Temple, so it is impossible to obey Moses' Law, so no JUDAISM exists.
No wonder you are confused.

Correct.

There is no High Priest, no Temple, no Levites.

There are no pilgrimages to Jerusalem 3 times a year.

There are no ashes from a perfect red heifer.

 

[glorydaz]

Shalom.

To exhaust oneself is different from being exhausted, but I was realizing or recognizing after the fact that I have shared the points, all that I can, in answer, learning that what I have learned is not what he is talking about.

I am not lost or wanderingaround at all. I believe Yeshua to be the Messiah. It seems that he does not, and I do not know why.

Shalom.

Jacob

You're a bit late to the game. Jesus Christ, as Messiah, was rejected by the Jews, was crucified, buried and rose from the dead. Now He is the head of the Church, of whom believers are members.

 

[tetelestai]

You're as blind as the rest of Israel is.

Yet your Dispensationalism teaches that he is still the chosen people of God, and that God still has a plan for him and his people.

You are the blind one.

 

[Jacob]

Hmmmmm....So are you a Messianic Jew?

First off, Dispensationalism is a false teaching that didn't exist before John Nelson Darby invented it in 1830.

Secondly, there is no such thing as a "Jew" in the New Covenant. Those who have faith in Christ Jesus are the Israel of God. Those who have faith in Christ Jesus are the children of Abraham.

Shalom.

I am not a Messianic Jew. I am not a Christian. I am a Jew. I am Orthodox. I do not eat meat and dairy together. I do not follow Messianic Judaism, but I have observed Shabbat at congregations with those who do or have.

The new covenant in Yeshua HaMashiach, Yeshua Messiah, Jesus the Christ, is for the house of Israel and the house of Judah.

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[tetelestai]

Modern RT is a cover up for not understanding Gal 3:17 properly which is the original replacement problem to be concerned with.

The writer of Hebrews advocated Replacement Theology:

(Heb 8:13) By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

The New Covenant has REPLACED the Old Covenant.

 

[Jacob]

I'll bet you don't. You're fibbing to us. You don't even know what those 1050 laws are, do you?

Shalom.

You can find them online if you need a list of them. Or just read Matthew through Revelation as I have done.

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[glorydaz]

Yet your Dispensationalism teaches that he is still the chosen people of God, and that God still has a plan for him and his people.

You are the blind one.

He's a pretend Jew. They won't claim him.

You are the gullible one.

 

[Jacob]

According to Romans chapters 9,10,11 the Jews have been "cut off" from God.
There is no Temple, so it is impossible to obey Moses' Law, so no JUDAISM exists.
No wonder you are confused.

Shalom.

In the absence of a temple we do what we can do. Some things are impossible for us to do.

As for Romans do you know if Paul was writing to Jews? The early church was entirely Jewish.

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[Interplanner]

The writer of Hebrews advocated Replacement Theology:

(Heb 8:13) By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

The New Covenant has REPLACED the Old Covenant.

Of course, but the original issue Paul had to deal with was why IT Judaism replaced the Promise with the Law, Gal 3:17. By doing so, it ruined the continuity of the Bible's message. IT Judaism replaced and voided the Promise, which led to all the problems Paul had with Judaism after he was in Christ.

 

[jshugart]

Shalom.

You are welcome to explain what you have learned if you think that it would benefit someone. At this point I have exhausted the subject with you. You said that you are of Israel. How so?

I was asking to see if you had already dealt with what I have seen, and had found the answers I could not find. I was not trying to change your mind or convert you. Your path is your path, who am I to say it is wrong? No, for the chances of me being wrong are too great. But I like to learn.

you said:
You said that you are of Israel. How so?


The TaNaKh gives us these verses that I build my belief on:

Ex 12:49
Is 56:1-7
Is 14:1
Ez 47:21-23


Shalom

 

[Jacob]

I can see you selectively read the Holy Scriptures.

You're as blind as the rest of Israel is.

Shalom.

I read, study, and observe Torah daily. I observe and teach the Torah. There are 613 Commandments.

I accept the TaNaKh and Matthew through Revelation.

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[tetelestai]

He's a pretend Jew. They won't claim him.

LOL...who is "they"?

 

[patrick jane]

Shalom.

As I start this thread in the United States of America, where I live and where I am a citizen, it is Sheni, Ziv 12, day.

I am a Jew, of Israel, Jewish, as a proselyte and a convert. I used to be a Christian Dispensationalist. There are some things or views of premillenial dispensationalism that I did not find in scripture, that are still a part of my mind. They need to be cleared up. I was pretribulation rapture, by what I was taught. I do not accept a seven year tribulation preceding a millennium.

How do you replace false thoughts or ideas with that which is true? Is there a process for this? Can you exchange one thought for another?

I read, study, observe, and teach (others) Torah. I desire that others would know about God's commands. I accept the TaNaKh and Matthew through Revelation.

Shalom.

Jacob

Jacob. a good Jew wouldn't bad mouth Dispensationalism

 

[Jacob]

You're a bit late to the game. Jesus Christ, as Messiah, was rejected by the Jews, was crucified, buried and rose from the dead. Now He is the head of the Church, of whom believers are members.

Shalom.

The early church was entirely Jewish, so you are wrong. Every thing else you said I might have agreed with.

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[glorydaz]

Shalom.

You can find them online if you need a list of them. Or just read Matthew through Revelation as I have done.

Shalom.

Jacob

Nope...don't want or need them. They are not for you. They are not for me.

The law was added because of transgressions UNTIL the seed should come.

Gal. 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.​

Guess what? He came, and He took all those transgressions with Him to the cross. The Law is only good for finding man guilty and leading him to Christ. It's quite disrespectful to think you can keep what Christ Himself fulfilled on the Cross. Why do you think He said, "It is finished"?

 

[Jacob]

He has an active imagination. :sigh:

Shalom.

Please think about what you say.

Shalom.

Jacob