Drug Dealing and the Bible

[jeremysdemo]

He already answered that. "what he thinks of the water into wine story".

He presents Y'shua as a militant leader which is an interesting angle but not that uncommon for "Messiahs" of His day.

He refuses to address the incense in the Temple, although if want wanted to make a biblical and historical case for drugs in the common era that would be foolish to leave out of the thesis............unless of course it is counterproductive to a particular bias agenda.....

keep shinin

jerm

We are well aware of the popular belief that Moses and his men smoked marijuana in the "tent of the LORD", a story which is continually propagated by those who want to legalize marijuana and other drugs.

"We are"? I was not aware of any belief about Moses and marijuana, I must not be popular enough to know these things...perhaps if I buy some new draws that hang off my butt and mingle with the in crowd I can be in the know next time.....

All that aside I was speaking originally of burnt offerings to God.....in the Temple, not "smoking" anything directly out of a hooka or something......:wazzup:

keep shinin

jerm

 

[edixon]

and you need my commentary on a mistranslation of Mark,

No, not really.........

 

[Nazaroo]

I haven't figured Nazaroo out yet, but he does ask some good questions. Who can disagree that most churches have moved in their moral standards, often just a few paces behind the world. I met a young unmarried couple recently, who both claim to be Christian, yet "sleep" at each other's apartment unbashedly. Huh? Is this okay now? Does the flock sleep as we fall down every slippery slope?

Thanks for appreciating this important point.

The Christian community ("the Church") is in deep trouble, and we really are entering the Last Days, when no one will endure sound doctrine, as Paul predicted in 2nd Timothy 4:3.

peace,
Nazaroo

 

[Nazaroo]

Who can disagree that most churches have moved in their moral standards, often just a few paces behind the world. I met a young unmarried couple recently, who both claim to be Christian, yet "sleep" at each other's apartment unbashedly.

One thing that is particularly disturbing about this trend is that one principle depends for its support on another.

What is happening now is that mainstream Christian doctrines are being eroded from multiple angles.

I was able in the past to show that "drinking moderately" was not a legitimate interpretation of "be sober", by using a parallel illustration with fornication:

That "flee fornication!" could not mean "fornicate moderately".

Now that both Christians and mainstream churches are indeed saying "fornicate moderately", this defence against drug abuse is also eroded.

Hand in hand, one blind and false doctrine leads another doctrine into a ditch, and the people who follow it with them.

peace
nazaroo

 

[jeremysdemo]

So I take it this is an indictment of the U.S. pharmaceutical companies?

After all they are the biggest seller of drugs in the Northern hemisphere.

keep shinin

jerm

 

[Yazichestvo]

D:

Wow. This guy is scary. What reasoning!

He compares the argument that insulin is natural to the argument that Marijuana is "natural". As if that unnatural act of inhaling smoke was comparable to the use of insulin, which is SUPPOSED to be in your body. Next he'll be damning Doctors who give blood transfusions.

 

[LightSon]

D:

Wow. This guy is scary. What reasoning!

He compares the argument that insulin is natural to the argument that Marijuana is "natural". As if that unnatural act of inhaling smoke was comparable to the use of insulin, which is SUPPOSED to be in your body. Next he'll be damning Doctors who give blood transfusions.

Didn't you know we all have trace amounts of THC in our body chemistry? Smoking pot must therefore be natural. :hammer:

 

[jeremysdemo]

There is THc in Banana peels if memory serves me correct....

And you don't have to smoke herbs to get the medicinal benefits out of them.
Ingesting plants is an older practice of man than any text of hieroglyphic writing of man.

Still don't know what any of that has to do with the incense being burned in the Temple in the time of Y'shua, the thread owner never made any biblical or historical link there......:juggle:


keep shinin

jerm

 

[koban]

There is THc in Banana peels if memory serves me correct....

I had thought so too (and I'm a chemist with a background in illicit drugs, both professionaly and personally), but alas, it turns out to have been an urban myth.

 

[jeremysdemo]

I had thought so too (and I'm a chemist with a background in illicit drugs, both professionaly and personally), but alas, it turns out to have been an urban myth.

Ya,

I must have read it in an outdated growers book from the 70's.

keep shinin

jerm

 

[Nazaroo]

I'm bumping this whole thread again because it may be the very last chance for some of the drug dealers who post here to repent, and save their own souls.

I wish I was exaggerating. But I know something of druggies.

I was just listening to a former repentant drug dealer the other day. They had a remarkable thing to say:

"I didn't consider myself a drug dealer while I was doing it. I had in my mind that I only sold drugs to my friends. It was a way of keeping myself in supply, that's how I viewed it. But I made a tidy profit which kept me in plenty of drugs. The fact is, however, I sold drugs to anyone who wanted to buy them. I would sell to anyone, any age, whatever. But I only realised and faced the fact I was a drug dealer after I quit doing it. I was willingly blind to what was before my eyes."
​

I remarked about this statement to several other friends and aquaintances, former addicts and dealers. They all said exactly the same thing. The guy had described all of them perfectly. They were all really serious drug dealers, but all the time, they told themselves they were only doing it to help friends etc.

It is a massive self-denial that goes along with almost every henious and life-threatening sin. The doer cannot face his own ugliness until he stops.

Pray for your own deliverance, and I will pray for you also.

peace
Nazaroo

 

[Persephone66]

I have an aunt and uncle that were drug dealers.

Then they became born again Christians.

Now they steal money from the government on a false disability claim and have the nerve to tell me I'm a bad person and deserve Hell.

 

[Nazaroo]

I have an aunt and uncle that were drug dealers.

Then they became born again Christians.

Now they steal money from the government on a false disability claim and have the nerve to tell me I'm a bad person and deserve Hell.

Surely being Christian is a legitimate disability to you, isn't it?


When the government steals in the first place ("Income tax will be a temporary measure", "international corporations are the biggest welfare cheats, paying no tax" etc. etc.), its good to hear about a few poor citizens clawing some back.

But if they are from your family and are your elders, its YOU who should be supporting them in their old age. You must be ashamed, after reading Jesus' stinging indictment in Mark 7:10-11.

It sounds like they are just repeating what Jesus would have told you.


peace
Nazaroo

 

[Persephone66]

Surely being Christian is a legitimate disability to you, isn't it?

Mental disability it seems.

When the government steals in the first place ("Income tax will be a temporary measure", "international corporations are the biggest welfare cheats, paying no tax" etc. etc.), its good to hear about a few poor citizens clawing some back.

Even if they are lying, cheating and ultimately stealing to get it?

But if they are from your family and are your elders, its YOU who should be supporting them in their old age. You must be ashamed, after reading Jesus' stinging indictment in Mark 7:10-11.

They are not that old and are quite capable of supporting themselves. In fact that both have jobs where they get paid under the table.

It sounds like they are just repeating what Jesus would have told you.

Lying in a court of law, cheating and stealing from the government gets you into heaven. Meanwhile being transgendered and listening to industrial music sends you to hell.

Yeah your Jesus sounds like a real dirtbag. :thumb:

Explains why another Christian I know is a kleptomaniac.

Really where can I sign up for this?

 

[LightSon]

Lying in a court of law, cheating and stealing from the government gets you into heaven. Meanwhile being transgendered and listening to industrial music sends you to hell.

Sorry to contradict, but since you are an athiest, you might consider deferring to a theist when it comes to interpreting the Bible. Does that make sense?

Getting into heaven is not based on lying or not lying; stealing or not stealing; transgendering or not, listening to industrial music or not.

John 3:18

He that believeth on [Jesus] is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

It's really very simple.

 

[Nazaroo]

Mental disability it seems.


Even if they are lying, cheating and ultimately stealing to get it?

All's fair in class warfare. Ask a Jew or a Palestinian. Rules for civilized living between non-hostiles don't apply.

They are not that old and are quite capable of supporting themselves. In fact that both have jobs where they get paid under the table.

Excellent. Borrow some money from them.

Lying in a court of law, cheating and stealing from the government gets you into heaven. Meanwhile being transgendered and listening to industrial music sends you to hell.

If that court of law had legitimate authority from God, as through the government (theocracy) set up by Moses, you'd have a legitimate complaint.

But the God of the Bible doesn't regard the governments, armies, and unauthorized legal contracts of goyim nations (Gentiles), any more than a wife or daughter has a right to sign a contract without approval from husband or father.

Ask the Big Guy. See if you can sneak something past Him.

The blame for being transgendered for most people born post-60s will be laid square at the feet of money-grubbing German Pharmaceutical companies and Lesbian feminists who pushed the Pill so hard it poisoned our drinking water.

Yeah your Jesus sounds like a real dirtbag. :thumb:

Long ago a great theologian observed:

"The Bible is like a mirror: if a donkey looks into it, a donkey looks back out at him."
​

Explains why another Christian I know is a kleptomaniac.

Only rich people are kleptomaniacs. - and they aren't Christians by definition. Luke 18:25

Really where can I sign up for this?

You're finally making sense.
I'd sign up quick, before Jesus returns. It could be problematic then.

peace
Nazaroo

 

[jeremysdemo]

Mental disability it seems.


Even if they are lying, cheating and ultimately stealing to get it?

They are not that old and are quite capable of supporting themselves. In fact that both have jobs where they get paid under the table.


Lying in a court of law, cheating and stealing from the government gets you into heaven. Meanwhile being transgendered and listening to industrial music sends you to hell.

Yeah your Jesus sounds like a real dirtbag. :thumb:

Explains why another Christian I know is a kleptomaniac.

Really where can I sign up for this?

I understand completely where you are coming from.
My own biological father is married to one woman, (separated for 7 years now) and lives with another, yet he claims to be "Christian".
I have confronted him about this in the past and all I get is excuses, like if he divorces and marries his current girlfriend she will loose her SSI widows benefits, oh and "I can't afford a lawyer", I found him one real cheap tho, no contest, $325 dollars, even offered to pay for half of it, to no avail, he claims he can't afford it, yet you will find him every FRi on payday at the local pub.

I gave him this scripture, Matthew 6:24.

If you truly love your family you will be open with them (regardless of their harsh judgment of your own musical taste and orientation) and give them the words of the One whom they claim to follow.

If after hearing what Jesus said about serving money instead of Him, they chose to do so anyway you can wash your hands clean and dust off your feet and walk away.


keep shinin

jerm

 

[Nazaroo]

My own biological father is married to one woman, (separated for 7 years now) and lives with another, yet he claims to be "Christian".
I have confronted him about this in the past and all I get is excuses, like if he divorces and marries his current girlfriend she will loose her SSI widows benefits, oh and "I can't afford a lawyer", I found him one real cheap tho, no contest, $325 dollars, even offered to pay for half of it, to no avail, he claims he can't afford it, yet you will find him every FRi on payday at the local pub.

I gave him this scripture, Matthew 6:24.

...

The problem here is not that you should not judge your father (and you shouldn't, but that's another story), but that you shouldn't judge superficially, or let your own personal involvement cloud your judgement.

Real judges dismiss themselves from cases like this because "conflicting interests".


To deal with this case fairly, you need to go back 400 years, when Erasmus during the Reformation changed the basic rules of "marriage" drastically for the first time in 1600 years. Since that time, it has been a slippery slope, redefining marriage, divorce, and Christian status for the last 400 years.

At this point in time, only 1 out of 1000 "marriages" today could possibly be legitimate according to the Holy Scriptures and the teachings of the Bible.

The rest of all these "marriages" are illegitimate in the first place.

Was your dad or mom a virgin when the got married in the first place? No? Well then guess what: their "marriage" is Biblically invalid. They had previous obligations by God's law, and if you and they don't recognise that, or you don't believe in those legal definitions and values anyway, you've got no case for him "divorcing" one party and "remarrying" another.

All these actions are illegal and wrong. You insisting that he "remarry" avoids the obvious fact that his first marriage isn't a real Biblical marriage at all, and his second isn't either.

You'd be better off joining the Mormons and accepting polygamy under the circumstances, because none of these ad-hoc, make-believe "make your own rules" style "marriages" have any credibility with God or the Bible.

Most modern North American "marriages" are absurd, not just invalid. They are the erratic behaviours of compulsive liars and self-deniers and confused fornicators and adulterers. They have no meaning with God or the Bible.

Its like this: Imagine you come to a meeting in a den of thieves, and some are arguing about a few coins that one stole from the other, which he had stolen from a third bandit. Would God really step in and say, "Oh yes, those coins belong to you."

I think not. He would instead say, "Return ALL this stolen property right now, and never steal again!"

That is the proper solution to all these phoney illegitimate "marriages". Repentance.

Peace
Nazaroo

 

[TomO]

I have an aunt and uncle that were drug dealers.

Then they became born again Christians.

Now they steal money from the government on a false disability claim and have the nerve to tell me I'm a bad person and deserve Hell.

Perhaps if you were aware of the ultimate standard of what is "Good" you wouldn't have such a hard time accepting that fact. Personally, I console myself with the reality that I am in good company and that HE Loves me anyway. lain:

.....just as a side note: Maybe you should reserve judgement on whether or not HE is a dirtbag considering you don't know HIM.....from what I have seen you are basing your opinion of HIM solely on the actions of other "bad people who deserve Hell".:think:

 

[Persephone66]

All's fair in class warfare. Ask a Jew or a Palestinian. Rules for civilized living between non-hostiles don't apply.

This is not about warfare, it's about lying cheating and stealing for personal gains.

Excellent. Borrow some money from them.

Why? I don't need it.

If that court of law had legitimate authority from God, as through the government (theocracy) set up by Moses, you'd have a legitimate complaint.

I live in America, we have freedom of religion and thankfully do not live in a theocracy.

But the God of the Bible doesn't regard the governments, armies, and unauthorized legal contracts of goyim nations (Gentiles), any more than a wife or daughter has a right to sign a contract without approval from husband or father.

What nonsense is this?

Ask the Big Guy. See if you can sneak something past Him.

I work with this guy that's 6'6", kinda muscular and rides a Harley, you mean him? He's colour-blind, think I may be able to sneak a few things past him, though I don't know why I would need to.

The blame for being transgendered for most people born post-60s will be laid square at the feet of money-grubbing German Pharmaceutical companies and Lesbian feminists who pushed the Pill so hard it poisoned our drinking water.

What? you mean it's not my screwy genetics?

Long ago a great theologian observed:

"The Bible is like a mirror: if a donkey looks into it, a donkey looks back out at him."
​

You tell me what you think of someone that approves of lying, cheating and stealing. That is the impression you have left me.

Only rich people are kleptomaniacs. - and they aren't Christians by definition. Luke 18:25

She's far from rich, in fact she still owes me money I lent her 2 years ago.

You're finally making sense.

I was being sarcastic you nitwit.

I'd sign up quick, before Jesus returns. It could be problematic then.

Right. Will the man in the moon and that guy in the golden chariot that pulls the sun across the sky be with him?

I understand completely where you are coming from.
My own biological father is married to one woman, (separated for 7 years now) and lives with another, yet he claims to be "Christian".
I have confronted him about this in the past and all I get is excuses, like if he divorces and marries his current girlfriend she will loose her SSI widows benefits, oh and "I can't afford a lawyer", I found him one real cheap tho, no contest, $325 dollars, even offered to pay for half of it, to no avail, he claims he can't afford it, yet you will find him every FRi on payday at the local pub.

I gave him this scripture, Matthew 6:24.

If you truly love your family you will be open with them (regardless of their harsh judgment of your own musical taste and orientation) and give them the words of the One whom they claim to follow.

I do love my family and my klepto friend too, I really wish they would leave their churches. It would be the best thing for them, and you as well. Religion breeds ignorance. Since our earliest days we have tried to understand the world and the cosmos. Where we failed or came up short, we filled in the gaps and discrepancies with blind faith.

If after hearing what Jesus said about serving money instead of Him, they chose to do so anyway you can wash your hands clean and dust off your feet and walk away.

I have told them how I feel about it and why what they are doing is wrong, they believe they will be forgiven.

Perhaps if you were aware of the ultimate standard of what is "Good" you wouldn't have such a hard time accepting that fact. Personally, I console myself with the reality that I am in good company and that HE Loves me anyway. lain:

Is lying under oath, cheating and stealing part of that ultimate standard of good?

Being an atheist, I know that I am responsible for my actions and that there are social and moral ramifications for my wrong doings should I choose to do wrong. I live in reality, you sound like a lunatic that cannot separate fantasy from reality.

.....just as a side note: Maybe you should reserve judgement on whether or not HE is a dirtbag considering you don't know HIM.....from what I have seen you are basing your opinion of HIM solely on the actions of other "bad people who deserve Hell".:think:

I keep getting the impression that lying, cheating and stealing is ok from people in this very thread, including yourself, and friends and family. Is murder ok too? Do you think you deserve Hell? That appears to be the case. If so, why hate yourself so much? Why lower yourself? Why not free yourself? Shrug the trapping of religion. Take responsibility for your actions and make your self a good person. Live in a real reality, not some made up one.