Drug Dealing and the Bible

[jeremysdemo]

My own biological father is married to one woman, (separated for 7 years now) and lives with another, yet he claims to be "Christian".
I have confronted him about this in the past and all I get is excuses, like if he divorces and marries his current girlfriend she will loose her SSI widows benefits, oh and "I can't afford a lawyer", I found him one real cheap tho, no contest, $325 dollars, even offered to pay for half of it, to no avail, he claims he can't afford it, yet you will find him every FRi on payday at the local pub.

I gave him this scripture, Matthew 6:24.

...

The problem here is not that you should not judge your father (and you shouldn't, but that's another story), but that you shouldn't judge superficially, or let your own personal involvement cloud your judgement.

Real judges dismiss themselves from cases like this because "conflicting interests".


To deal with this case fairly, you need to go back 400 years, when Erasmus during the Reformation changed the basic rules of "marriage" drastically for the first time in 1600 years. Since that time, it has been a slippery slope, redefining marriage, divorce, and Christian status for the last 400 years.

At this point in time, only 1 out of 1000 "marriages" today could possibly be legitimate according to the Holy Scriptures and the teachings of the Bible.

The rest of all these "marriages" are illegitimate in the first place.

Was your dad or mom a virgin when the got married in the first place? No? Well then guess what: their "marriage" is Biblically invalid. They had previous obligations by God's law, and if you and they don't recognise that, or you don't believe in those legal definitions and values anyway, you've got no case for him "divorcing" one party and "remarrying" another.

All these actions are illegal and wrong. You insisting that he "remarry" avoids the obvious fact that his first marriage isn't a real Biblical marriage at all, and his second isn't either.

You'd be better off joining the Mormons and accepting polygamy under the circumstances, because none of these ad-hoc, make-believe "make your own rules" style "marriages" have any credibility with God or the Bible.

Most modern North American "marriages" are absurd, not just invalid. They are the erratic behaviours of compulsive liars and self-deniers and confused fornicators and adulterers. They have no meaning with God or the Bible.

Its like this: Imagine you come to a meeting in a den of thieves, and some are arguing about a few coins that one stole from the other, which he had stolen from a third bandit. Would God really step in and say, "Oh yes, those coins belong to you."

I think not. He would instead say, "Return ALL this stolen property right now, and never steal again!"

That is the proper solution to all these phoney illegitimate "marriages". Repentance.

Peace
Nazaroo

That is all very interesting, and I agree that repentance is par for the course.
But rather than redefine what legal marriage is in the 21st century (which my father would love since it let's him of the hook), a simpler approach was taken which was to use scripture to show how we should not serve two masters God and money, since that was the only reason my father has for living in fornication.
Jesus said to render unto Caesar that which is Caesars and right now here in reality in the Western world Caesar is the government and marriage laws are written by it, not by Moses or any Jewish ordinance or biblical theory.

My father speaks with a double mind, he says things like you "that was not a biblical marriage" (about his second wife) but at the same time gives excuses like money, if he truly believed the marriage was invalid (by the principalities laid down by US law which is under God's ultimate authority) than he would need excuses as to why he "can't" get LEGALLY divorced, cause according to him his has been "spiritually" divorced from his second wife for almost a decade since her adultery.

Also your theory as entertaining as it is does not take into effect the clear Jewish tradition of taking your brothers wife if he dies, obviously she would not be a virgin when you married her under "God's law". Matthew 22:28 :think:

keep shinin

jerm

 

[jeremysdemo]

I understand completely where you are coming from.
My own biological father is married to one woman, (separated for 7 years now) and lives with another, yet he claims to be "Christian".
I have confronted him about this in the past and all I get is excuses, like if he divorces and marries his current girlfriend she will loose her SSI widows benefits, oh and "I can't afford a lawyer", I found him one real cheap tho, no contest, $325 dollars, even offered to pay for half of it, to no avail, he claims he can't afford it, yet you will find him every FRi on payday at the local pub.

I gave him this scripture, Matthew 6:24.

If you truly love your family you will be open with them (regardless of their harsh judgment of your own musical taste and orientation) and give them the words of the One whom they claim to follow.

I do love my family and my klepto friend too, I really wish they would leave their churches. It would be the best thing for them, and you as well. Religion breeds ignorance. Since our earliest days we have tried to understand the world and the cosmos. Where we failed or came up short, we filled in the gaps and discrepancies with blind faith.

If you truly love your family you will be open with them (regardless of their harsh judgment of your own musical taste and orientation) and give them the words of the One whom they claim to follow.

You were given the scripture of the person your family "claims" to follow, Jesus, about serving God and money.
Let's see if your love is true or if it falls short, whether or not you give them that scripture.

As I said, if they chose to ignore the teachings of the very person they claim to worship than it really doesn't matter what "church" they are going to, they could be part of any country club in the US.
and will have bigger problems than leaving a church or not or wasting there time with religious practices.

IF they are true followers of Y'shua they will do what is right even if it cost them a great deal of their dishonest income, and rely of God to supply their needs, that is if they have any true faith at all.
Print this out and bring it to them, you can tell them I said so, and if they have any problems with it they can come to my church or house and talk to me personally.

keep shinin

jerm

 

[Yazichestvo]

At this point in time, only 1 out of 1000 "marriages" today could possibly be legitimate according to the Holy Scriptures and the teachings of the Bible.

The rest of all these "marriages" are illegitimate in the first place.

Was your dad or mom a virgin when the got married in the first place? No? Well then guess what: their "marriage" is Biblically invalid.
Peace
Nazaroo

I'm sure we'd make up for all of those null marriages if fathers still sold their daughters (sometimes more than one) to one man like cattle. The nobility of old-fashioned marriage really escapes me.

As for "Pharmakeia", Rev 18:23, Babylon was famous for "sorcery", the common translation for that word. The association with medicine is derived from an association of healing with benificent magic. Surely you don't regard medicine as the work of the devil like some sort of uneducated medieval witch-hunter, so there's no real point int that.

As for drinking, do you really imagine that the production of ethanol in beer or wine equates to "casting a spell"? People who made the same connection you do seem to think so;

http://www.pharmakia.org/

Am I "communing with the spirits" if I drink? I am in no way ridiculing such a claim, since even the ancients spoke of a spirit inhabiting the drinker, but do you make the same connection to witchcraft as these people?

 

[Desert Reign]

I guess a possible answer to this question is that drugs were used mainly in religious contexts in the ancient world.

So perhaps the term drug dealing is a little misleading as is likewise the term sorcery. I think Nazaroo has given enough evidence to show that it definitely does relate to drugs but the term drug dealing only conjures up modern ideas of purely recreational use and loses the obvious connection to pagan ritual.

But in any case, I do not doubt Nazaroo's attention to holiness and his desire to see a church that is set apart from the world. It is all too easy for the church to be moulded by the world. I am not sure if I would follow Nazaroo's particular interpretation of that but I nevertheless find his attention to holiness (not lawkeeping by the way) reassuring.

 

[Nazaroo]

I'm sure we'd make up for all of those null marriages if fathers still sold their daughters (sometimes more than one) to one man like cattle. The nobility of old-fashioned marriage really escapes me.

Its easy to judge ancient cultures superficially. In those days, "outside" was forest and jungle, and between city-states lived bandits and marauding armies. It goes without saying there was no "welfare system", except your family. Any viable future meant connection to men of power with defensible fortifications, farms and vineyards.

The Nobility of Medieval marriage (arranged or not) was developed by Christians, and the new 'rights' and respect granted women came through Christian advances.

As for "Pharmakeia", Rev 18:23, Babylon was famous for "sorcery", the common translation for that word. The association with medicine is derived from an association of healing with benificent magic.

Your thought is unfocussed. I can't follow what you want to do with this.

Surely you don't regard medicine as the work of the devil like some sort of uneducated medieval witch-hunter, so there's no real point int that.

I do believe much of modern medicine is part of a large corporate complex similar to the Military Industrial Complex, a very evil and destructive force, completely out of control in the 21st century.

As for drinking, do you really imagine that the production of ethanol in beer or wine equates to "casting a spell"?

Am I "communing with the spirits" if I drink? I am in no way ridiculing such a claim, since even the ancients spoke of a spirit inhabiting the drinker, but do you make the same connection to witchcraft as these people?

I personally DO believe that ingesting drugs makes one vulnerable to demonic forces, which are real. I have had enough personal and clinical experience to arrive at that conclusion as a scientist.

The "witchcraft" connection is not the main point however. Drugs do severe damage to people with or without demonic influence.

But anyone foolish enough to experiment with them for long is fully aware of demonic forces which are attracted to such victims.

peace
Nazaroo

 

[Nazaroo]

I guess a possible answer to this question is that drugs were used mainly in religious contexts in the ancient world.

So perhaps the term drug dealing is a little misleading as is likewise the term sorcery. I think Nazaroo has given enough evidence to show that it definitely does relate to drugs but the term drug dealing only conjures up modern ideas of purely recreational use and loses the obvious connection to pagan ritual.

But in any case, I do not doubt Nazaroo's attention to holiness and his desire to see a church that is set apart from the world. It is all too easy for the church to be moulded by the world. I am not sure if I would follow Nazaroo's particular interpretation of that but I nevertheless find his attention to holiness (not lawkeeping by the way) reassuring.

I appreciate your constructive comments.

Peace
Nazaroo

 

[Nazaroo]

Great news today: (Nov 11, 2009)

On our local Christian radio station, Life 100.3 (Barrie, Ont), (89.3 PTBO etc.)

The morning program, Walk in the Word with James McDonald,

gave a great discussion on alcohol, and its devastating cost to society.
He will give PART II tomorrow morning.

This speaker is enthusiastic and knowledgeable. Excellent talk, I will try to get the CD and give some excerpts.

Peace
Nazaroo

 

[Nazaroo]

I found a link to James MacDonald's preaching resources and broadcasts:

http://walkintheword.com/CoolStuff.aspx

Perhaps this can be helpful to others trying to deal with the drinking issue.

peace
Nazaroo

 

[Nazaroo]

Here is the Youtube link to the Pat Roberston interview with

Brian Welch ("Head") from the rock band Korn.

His story of being delivered from drugs is quite interesting, especially since although he was involved with many drugs, the alcoholism was always the central hook which kept him enslaved, until he prayed to Jesus directly.

Many people less famous have similar stories of deliverance.

peace
Nazaroo

 

[Nazaroo]

Further substanciation that alcohol is in fact a drug and NOT a food, and has no food value is provided by many commercial and scientific instrument makers;

Basic facts of alcohol intoxication are explaned in plain language here:

http://www.intox.com/about_alcohol.asp

http://www.chemcases.com/alcohol/alc-06.htm

http://health.howstuffworks.com/alcohol2.htm

http://www.scienceclarified.com/Ex-Ga/Fermentation.html

enjoy.
Nazaroo

 

[jeremysdemo]

I for one found your rebuttal and general response to the scriptures and facts in my last post both genius and awe inspiring....

keep up the good work! (speaking to the spambot that is running the thread discussion)

keep shinin

jerm

 

[Nazaroo]

I for one found your rebuttal and general response to the scriptures and facts in my last post both genius and awe inspiring....

keep up the good work! (speaking to the spambot that is running the thread discussion)

keep shinin

jerm

Not sure if your are being ironic again, but I appreciate your humour in any case.

Marriage really is a mess in the 21st century, and there are no simple solutions to complex and probably illegal relationships which have developed for generations without serious Biblical guidance.

It may be that God will overlook and forgive the mess as it stands, and honour the intent of the heart in many cases, as opposed to the letter of the Law.

However, it is clear from Jesus' teaching in the NT that the ideal relationship is monogamy, virginity, and lifetime commitment for the purpose of becoming 'one flesh', namely having children among other things.

Friendships are friendships; marriage is a unique institution under the guidance of God's directions, and not our own invention.

peace
Nazaroo

 

[Nazaroo]

Examining Old Dictionaries

Older dictionaries and lexicons are not always that useful, in comparison to the latest scholarly versions. This is because our knowledge of NT Greek has expanded dramatically in the last 120 years.

Before that time, European scholars were labouring under some false assumptions they had taken from their knowledge of Classical (Attic and Doric) Greek. (There is a 500 year difference between Classical Greek and Koine (NT) Greek.

Nonetheless, older works are valuable in that they give us knowledge of the state of knowledge itself at earlier times.

One great example are the entries found in Edward Robinson's Greek and English Lexicon of the New Testament (Andover, 1825). This work clearly shows that Western English scholars knew as far back as the 1820's that "pharmakeia" carried the meaning of "DRUG DEALER": (pg 797) -

_________________________________

φαρμακεια, -ας, η, (φαρμακον; -- medicine, a dose of medicine [i.e. a drug], see Xen. Mem. IV 2.17, -- a poison[ing], [Lat.] veneficium, Polyb. VI. 13.4)
In N.T. -- incantation, magic art, sorcery, Gal. 5:20, Rev. 9:21, 18:23.
So Sept. [the LXX] for: לַֽחֲכָמִים וְ]לַֽמְכַשְּׁפִים] in Exod. 7:11.
& for כְּשָׁפַיִךְ [Strong's 3785: 'Kesheph', "your sorceries"(?)] in Isa. 47:9, [& Isa. 47:12.]
-- Herodot. VII. 114. So [Lat.] veneficium, Cicero in Catil. II.1.

φαρμακευς, -εως, ο, (written also φαρμακος and φραρμακευτης, cf. Lobeck ad Phryn. p. 316. pp. one who prepares drugs; )
In N.T. -- an enchanter, magician, sorcerer, Acts 21:8 in some editions [i.e., manuscript copies] where others read φαρμακος . Lucian. Dial. Deor XIII. 1.

φαρμακος, -ou, o, i.q. φαρμακευς q.v. - Rev. 21:8, 22:15.
_________________________________


Here Robinson dutifully lists the popular renderings of these words in English NT translations, but he also demonstrates that scholars were well aware that almost all citings in contemporary literature and classical literature show φαρμακευς to mean drug-dealer, and φαρμακεια to mean drug-dealing or sales of medicine.

This is the very thing we should expect. Robinson and other 18th century scholars were faced with the difficult task of realising that many common understandings about the language of the NT were in fact not knowledge-based at all, but were rather naive notions about the meanings of words, borne out of the Middle Ages.

It wasn't until the 1870s that scholars felt safe challenging cherished notions about the NT and doctrine. Before that, they could be arrested, fired from their posts in churches and universities, and left to starve in a society that was very bigotted and vindictive, and afraid of any idea that appeared to be a 'heresy'.

So scholars walked a diplomatic course of providing important information, while leaving recommendations unspoken.

peace
Nazaroo

 

[Nazaroo]

Translators Give notice of "DRUGS"

Translators Give notice of "DRUGS"

Its not only compilers of dictionaries and grammars, or commentators who acknowledge the meaning of "pharmakeia" to be a reference to drugs:

Even translators of the NT have brought attention to this important point.

The NKJV follows the KJV closely, but adds the following important footnote to Rev. 9:21:

'And they did not repent of their murders or their sorceries (1) or their sexual immorality or their thefts.'
​

_______________________________________

(9:21) NU-Text and M-Text read drugs.



It is clear that many modern scholars have observed this important connotation regarding the Greek vocabulary in these key places of prophecy.

peace
Nazaroo

 

[Nazaroo]

Out in the free world is not the only place where drugs and alcohol wreak violence and destruction.

In prison, the single most important factor in violent incidents and gang behaviour is drug dealing, tobacco, and making bootleg liquor in jail. These "commodities" virtually drive the prison economy and perpetuate injustice and violence in a mafia-like atmosphere of fear and hate.

The drugs amplify emotional disturbances, and exaggerate offences, as well as swell pride and arrogance to the point of criminal violence, just as in ancient Sodom.

"...till there was no remedy." (2nd Chron. 36:16)

peace
Nazaroo

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

... ___ ...

 

[Nazaroo]

remember
"During the Middle Ages the Church became the largest manufacturer and supplier of the most popular drug on earth: ALCOHOL. The church sold out to the drug dealing industry, and God’s Word was intentionally kept obscure."
...
i.e. not just to a drug, but to the drug dealing industry.... many millions have died as a result of the massive deception, corruption, and total lies they speak.

Yes, I am total agreement that this scandalous piece of recent history actually happened.

Our North American/European culture is still in a state of dyslexia and denial about alcohol. People just refuse to recognize it as a drug, or admit that it is the worst, most common drug problem known to modern mankind.

This is one of the main reasons that the "Roman Catholic church" and other mainstream churches simply cannot be trusted to teach on this issue. They not only turn a blind eye to alcoholism and its devastating effect to society, they aid and abet the drug dealers and drug dealing industry by actively promoting alcohol.

peace
Nazaroo

 

[Nazaroo]

An Account of the Fallout from the Drug-War in America


After 20 years of the "war on drugs", some horrific statistics are now available.

For instance, the number of MOTHERS of children now incarcerated in prison for drugs has reached over 100,000 in the USA, an increase of over 400% in twenty years.

In real terms, this means almost half a million children are growing up without the single most important care-giver in their lives, their own mother. These kids have a huge risk of falling directly back into the "Drug Culture" and being swallowed up in drug-abuse and fornication, and criminal involvement.

The American prison system is clearly not a solution by itself, and simply impoverishes and destroys families. It is however a multi-billion dollar industry, and is simply ever-expanding. The "Drug War" is good business for those who profit by its tragedies, and prisons are a large employer now, in a way of life totally unnatural to both the inmates and guards, who are BOTH prisoners, with impoverished quality of life.

Its up to Christians (who else will help?) to pick up the pieces of these wrecked lives and try to save these families, mothers and children.

We have to start by giving a loud and certain message against recreational drug abuse, ESPECIALLY ALCOHOL, the single most popular drug wreaking the most havoc in North American life.

Give it up, and tell people why!

peace
Nazaroo

 

[Nazaroo]

Alcohol linked to nearly 50% of unnatural deaths

Alcohol linked to nearly 50% of unnatural deaths

Here is a disturbing finding from a scientific study of alcohol and unnatural deaths, not done by the Temperance Union, or religious fanatics, but by doctors in Sweden.

Friday, 14 July, 2000, 23:51 GMT 00:51 UK


Alcohol linked to thousands of deaths

Drink is blamed for many suicides, murders and falls


Almost half of all unnatural deaths are related to alcohol, a study has found. Research carried out by doctors in Sweden suggests that 44% deaths cause by accidents or other events are linked to drinking.
These include deaths from suicide, falls, traffic injuries, asphyxia, intoxication and murder are linked to drinking.
The doctors examined deaths in Sweden over a five-year period. They divided deaths into natural - those that were caused by disease or illness - and unnatural - those that were event-related.
They found that 29% all unnatural deaths were associated with alcohol.
However, they estimated that the figure may be as high as 44% and may be even higher in countries with 'softer' alcohol laws than Sweden.


Dangers and risks
Anders Eriksson, professor of forensic medicine at Sweden's Umea University, said: "The sober person does not take the same risks and, to some extent, can avoid dangers and risks."
He added: "Alcohol also blurs your mind and it is well known that both self-destructive behaviour and aggression towards other people is much higher under the influence of alcohol than during sobriety."
Professor Eriksson said the study showed that alcohol-related deaths did not just concern traffic incidents.

"The sober person does not take the same risks"

Prof Anders Erikkson, Umea University

"The study demonstrates that alcohol is a problem not only when it comes to drunk driving and traffic deaths, but in a significant number of all unnatural deaths.
"This means that you run a greater risk in almost all aspects when you are under the influence of alcohol."
The Institute of Alcohol Studies, in Cambridgeshire, said: "This goes to show that alcohol is a far wider problem than the government recognises.
"Quite clearly, it raises questions about what on earth the government is doing in not lowering the drink driving limit."
Sue Boon, assistant director of Alcohol Concern, said she was not surprised by the findings.
"It does seem to correlate quite closely with what is going on in the UK. For instance 65% of suicide attempts are linked to alcohol and eight out of 10 people who present themselves at A&E at peak times have had an accident which can be linked with alcohol.
"We are not really surprised and that is why Alcohol Concern is pushing the government to publish a national alcohol strategy to address these problems."


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/833483.stm

 

[Nazaroo]

The Hidden Horror of Marijuana Trade

The Hidden Horror of Marijuana Trade

Often the use of marijuana is presented as a harmless recreation, picked on by vested interests (anti-hemp rope makers, opposing countercultures).

What is glossed over in this presentation is the horrific and violent carnage just south of the American border, sustained by the marijuana trade.

As one Mexican Cartel Hitman expressed it, "Its all about the bridge: (meaning the US/Mexican border). As long as the gringos buy it, the killing will go on and on. Today 20, tomorrow 200."

There are about four major drug cartels south of the US border, one centered at Tiajuana (West coast), on in central Mexico (the jungle grow-ops), and two more in the East, around Mexico-City etc.

These competing gangs slay ordinary Mexican citizens, including women and children, by the busload, just to instill terror in both the people and the authorities, so that no one will help bust them.

They routinely chop off people's heads, machete them to death, and plant bullets in seven-year old children, in order to continue to grow and supply wealthy Americans with plenty of "Cheech & Chong" hooch.

All the while, the stupid Americans finance a reign of terror upon the poor, the ordinary farmers, and even school children, while passing out on their couches to assinine rock tunes.

"Peace, peace, when there is no peace..."