ECT Does the book of James contradict Paul's epistles? How?

[Arsenios]

Those of us within the PCA... take the view (that)

The goal...
of our Lord's commissioning of the Apostles
was obedience to His commands

--not merely initial conversion

Moreover,
the commission ... was not
(to) "every member (of the body of Christ)"

OK - But you are answering a different question here... The question I asked had to do with the role of obedience within the Body of Christ, and especially of Apostolic obedience, meaning obedience to the Apostles...

Your answer addresses the question of who are the ones called upon to obey His "Great Commission"... And the answer is pretty clearly, "Those called to be Apostles" whom Paul describes fairly specifically in 1Cor 4:9-17

"For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men...." etc.

But the commission itself was to "DISCIPLE THE NATIONS", and my question to you is, what is the role of obedience in that discipling of the nations such that those being discipled should find Salvation?

Because as well, I am recalling the first word of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, which is a command unto obedience: "Be ye repenting...", and the second command: "Be ye Baptized"...

And I am recalling Paul commanding his followers in the Faith of Christ to "OBEY those who have the RULE over you..."

I have not seen many Churches discipling obedience...

For more on this, see some very fine discussions on the topic:

http://opc.org/os.html?article_id=158&issue_id=46
http://opc.org/os.html?article_id=155&issue_id=46
http://opc.org/os.html?article_id=159&issue_id=46

AMR

Orthodox Presbyterian Church, is it?

Has a lovely sound...

Wasn't there also an Orthodox Lutheran Church?

I agree with one of the articles that not all are called to be Apostles...
Even though it did not exactly address this issue...
Not many are living the "appointed unto death" lives Paul described...

"Appointed unto death..."

Arsenios

 

[Angel4Truth]

Does the book of James contradict Paul's epistles? How?

They dont contradict, they are written to 2 different groups of people. Do you think every scripture applies to you?

 

[patrick jane]

bbbb

 

[oatmeal]

They dont contradict, they are written to 2 different groups of people. Do you think every scripture applies to you?

What two different groups of people?

Are we sure they are two different groups?

or are they the same group of people that includes people from two different backgrounds?

Is a Christian a Christian regardless of their background?

What should take preeminence? Their trust in God to become a Christian or what they were before that?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

They dont contradict, they are written to 2 different groups of people. Do you think every scripture applies to you?

Good post!

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

What two different groups of people?

Are we sure they are two different groups?

or are they the same group of people that includes people from two different backgrounds?

Is a Christian a Christian regardless of their background?

What should take preeminence? Their trust in God to become a Christian or what they were before that?

She means, The House of Israel as opposed to the gentiles! Paul
preached, "The Grace Message" to the gentiles while, Peter and the
rest preached, "The Kingdom Message" to the House of Israel (or,
if you prefer; The Jews!)

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

There were 2 distinctly different messages being
preached during that period of time! The Grace
Message and The Kingdom Message! Today there's
only one message; The Grace Message. (Paul's
Gospel, if you like?) It applies to both Jew and
gentile alike. It's the message of the, The Body
of Christ!

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

You probably don't predict the beheading of your barber, or cashier at the market.

That's LAs favorite "Prediction" for those he dislikes!

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Indeed James did write to the twelve tribes scattered abroad.

You ought to leave, only this response in your post here!

 

[oatmeal]

She means, The House of Israel as opposed to the gentiles! Paul
preached, "The Grace Message" to the gentiles while, Peter and the
rest preached, "The Kingdom Message" to the House of Israel (or,
if you prefer; The Jews!)

So you are saying that the Judeans did not get God's grace?

God was not gracious to Israel, but was gracious to the Gentiles?

Why the different treatment?

Are not all lost in sin before salvation?

Is one group more or less in need of God than the other?

 

[oatmeal]

There were 2 distinctly different messages being
preached during that period of time! The Grace
Message and The Kingdom Message! Today there's
only one message; The Grace Message. (Paul's
Gospel, if you like?) It applies to both Jew and
gentile alike. It's the message of the, The Body
of Christ!

Could you elaborate on the content of those messages?

What makes them different?

Are there two different God and Fathers, one for Judeans, another for Gentiles?

Are there two different lords?

Are there two different bodies?

spirits?

hopes of the calling?

two different faiths?

two different baptisms?

No, there is not.

Ephesians 4:4-6

Is grace given to all according to the measure of the gift of Christ?

Ephesians 4:7

 

[oatmeal]

You ought to leave, only this response in your post here!

Does that "sentence" have any meaning whatsoever?

 

[Angel4Truth]

What two different groups of people?

Are we sure they are two different groups?

or are they the same group of people that includes people from two different backgrounds?

Is a Christian a Christian regardless of their background?

What should take preeminence? Their trust in God to become a Christian or what they were before that?

James 1:1 1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ,
To the twelve tribes scattered among the nations:
Greetings.

Tell me, when you became one of the 12 tribes of Israel?

 

[Angel4Truth]

She means, The House of Israel as opposed to the gentiles! Paul
preached, "The Grace Message" to the gentiles while, Peter and the
rest preached, "The Kingdom Message" to the House of Israel (or,
if you prefer; The Jews!)

:thumb:

 

[Lazy afternoon]

There were 2 distinctly different messages being
preached during that period of time! The Grace
Message and The Kingdom Message! Today there's
only one message; The Grace Message. (Paul's
Gospel, if you like?) It applies to both Jew and
gentile alike. It's the message of the, The Body
of Christ!

Heresy.

Act 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
Act 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
Act 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
Act 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
Act 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.


Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

LA

 

[oatmeal]

James 1:1 1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ,
To the twelve tribes scattered among the nations:
Greetings.

Tell me, when you became one of the 12 tribes of Israel?

You should read a little farther.

James 1:17-18

What is that gift? the gift of salvation.

Begat? we are sons of God by seed I John 3:1-2, I Peter 1:23

James is familiar with the new birth

 

[Angel4Truth]

You should read a little farther.

James 1:17-18

What is that gift? the gift of salvation.

Begat? we are sons of God by seed I John 3:1-2, I Peter 1:23

James is familiar with the new birth

I dont need to read any further, in order to know who his letter is adressed to - because i am not looking to read myself into something that is not adressed to me, i am not part of the 12 tribes of israel and neither are you.

You are switching gears now over your earlier concern which has been adressed.

If you think all scripture is written to you that concerns israel, then you need to get yourself to a temple and take a vow and make sure you keep the feasts and tell no one Jesus is the Christ.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

I dont need to read any further, in order to know who his letter is adressed to - because i am not looking to read myself into something that is not adressed to me, i am not part of the 12 tribes of israel and neither are you.

You are switching gears now over your earlier concern which has been adressed.

If you think all scripture is written to you that concerns israel, then you need to get yourself to a temple and take a vow and make sure you keep the feasts and tell no one Jesus is the Christ.

James addressed his letter to the brethren in Christ.

That should tell you who the tribes of Israel were at that time and into which scattered nation, God was adding the new brethren to.

Not adding to the OT nation which had sinners in it, but to the NT nation in Christ.

1Pe 2:1 Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings,
1Pe 2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
1Pe 2:3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.
1Pe 2:4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
1Pe 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
1Pe 2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
1Pe 2:7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
1Pe 2:8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
1Pe 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
1Pe 2:10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.


Jas 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
Jas 1:3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
Jas 1:4 But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.
Jas 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
Jas 1:6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
Jas 1:7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.
Jas 1:8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.
Jas 1:9 Let the brother of low degree rejoice in that he is exalted:
Jas 1:10 But the rich, in that he is made low: because as the flower of the grass he shall pass away.

LA

 

[oatmeal]

I dont need to read any further, in order to know who his letter is adressed to - because i am not looking to read myself into something that is not adressed to me, i am not part of the 12 tribes of israel and neither are you.

You are switching gears now over your earlier concern which has been adressed.

If you think all scripture is written to you that concerns israel, then you need to get yourself to a temple and take a vow and make sure you keep the feasts and tell no one Jesus is the Christ.

Evidently, one verse is plenty for you. What do you do with the rest of the book of James?

II Timothy 3:16-17 KJV

It was written to the twelves tribes scattered abroad, those of the twelve that had received the gift of salvation and were scattered abroad as in Acts 8:1,4

 

[Arsenios]

I dont need to read any further,
in order to know who his letter is adressed to - because i am not looking to read myself into something that is not addressed to me, i am not part of the 12 tribes of israel and neither are you.

Do you also disregard all of Paul's words when he is addressing the Jews?

Because he addresses Jews a lot... And if your theory is correct, it is a matter of great concern to know ahead of time just exactly who it is that any part of Scripture is addressed to, so that you can know for sure what Scripture you have to ignore, and what Scripture you must listen to...

Paul himself was clear:

1Co 9:20-2
And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

So he would, under your theory, have one Gospel for the Jews, and one for those under the Law, and another for those without Law, and another for the weak, and another for each of all men...

But then he says that there is no such thing as another Gospel...
That in Christ, which Peter and James and John and the rest of the 12 and the 70, Paul affirms that there is neither Jew nor Greek...

Yet you say that the Gospel for each is different...

Orthodoxy affirms One God, One Gospel, One Lord, and One Holy Spirit, and one Faith, the Faith of Jesus Christ, which He gave to His Apostles, and that Faith disciples epentance unto Grace...

I mean, according to your theory, you must IGNORE THE GOSPELS, because they are not written to the Gentiles... You Bible is shrinking drastically... The Old Testament is OUT... You are forbidden from reading it, because it is addressed to the House of Israel...

It is all sounding crazier and crazier...

Arsenios