And dry as dust. I wonder what causes that?
ECT Does the book of James contradict Paul's epistles? How?
- Thread starter oatmeal
- Start date
And dry as dust. I wonder what causes that?
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
I think Dr. Breen suffered from low testosterone.
Since the Lord obviously "speaks to" you "personally," with some "Thus saith the lord..."'s, open up the back of the bible(s?), and, right after Revelation 22:21 KJV, give us "sum more bible"-start writing.
Revision: "especially when" "should read," "a better translation would be:"
"especially when I had a few shot from the 'Holy Ghost bartender,' or got hit by a waive from the 'lord,' and fell back in a stupor, being 'slain' in the Spirit, or had a few belts, having the spirit of Jim Beam in me, or took a few bong hits, and astroprojected..."
No charge.
"time to time" translated as "every 666 seconds."
oatmeal
Well-known member
Indeed James did write to the twelve tribes scattered abroad.
What did the apostles do in Acts 8:1
Who was scattered abroad? Gentiles who were converted to Christianity
or those of the twelve tribes that had believed the good news of the grace of God through Christ?
What is being referred to in James 1:17-18 if not the gift of salvation/eternal life/holy spirit?
Ask Mr. Religion
☞☞☞☞Presbyterian (PCA) 	
Gold Subscriber
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Better from the Greek:
"You see that faith worked with his works; and out of the works the faith was made complete."
I fail to see how this is at odds with Protestantism --other than bad caricatures of what others believe Protestants were actually protesting back in the day.
Anyone presuming faith without fruit is evidence of true faith is outside the camp ignoring exactly Who is responsible for their faith in the first place. Ephesians 2:10, etc., etc.
Patrick
My wife needed someone to go to the post office to pick up a package. She told me "you do not need to pick it up" she told my step son "you need to pick it up". Did Mrs Delmar's message to me contradict her message to her son?
This Charming Manc
Well-known member
You are blessed with a very straight forward wife.
Most women would sigh and say I have a packet to be picked from the post office and wait. They will then get annoyed at both of you when both disappear and find something more interesting to do.
Most women would sigh and say I have a packet to be picked from the post office and wait. They will then get annoyed at both of you when both disappear and find something more interesting to do.
thanks, me too. God Bless ! ! !
Arsenios
Well-known member
Better from the Greek:
"You see that faith worked with his works; and out of the works the faith was made complete."
I fail to see how this is at odds with Protestantism --other than bad caricatures of what others believe Protestants were actually protesting back in the day.
Anyone presuming faith without fruit is evidence of true faith is outside the camp ignoring exactly Who is responsible for their faith in the first place. Ephesians 2:10, etc., etc.
Patrick
The idea that one's faith is perfected by works, and the reverse, that without works, one's faith is immature, is not an idea I see very often among the crowd that thinks we are saved by faith apart from works...
I really think much of the issues revolve around the fact that there are a lot of different kinds of works... Initially, for instance, one labors in repentance, and this repentance is a work unto the Salvation of the soul of the person repenting...
But then you have the works of a mature Christian who has, say, prophetic insight, and he can tell a person what they need to know and/or do that will find favor with God in their particular case...
The first work is one kind, and indeed brings one's faith to maturity, whereas the second is a work that proceeds FROM the one who already IS perfected in the Faith...
And the third kind of work is that work to which Paul is constantly referring in his Epistles, which is the Jewish works of the Mosaic Law as it was practiced at that time... So many in the west see this kind of work and think Paul is referring to ALL kinds of works...
How do you understand obedience in Christ's Faith which He gave to His Apostles...??
Arsenios
believing in, and following Christ brings forth good fruit. good works should come naturally, without keeping score. or as necessary to "make up" for something. applying the wisdom of The Bible in our lives is the most important part. for instance, i have probably known at one time, a possible difference in presbyterian denominations. i don't remember, and i don't focus on where others may be wrong on a specific detail. depending, of course. i have an ability to rightly divide. i am not boasting and make no claims other than my opinion. i feel God's Word as i read it. i think we all do. it's much more than that, we all know. it's hard for me to convey in words only, on a computer. some of you do a much better job than i can. i actually type exactly the words i would use face to face with anyone. most of the time, (depends how big they are. lol) - i will never start a church or a group or a following of any kind. i do not preach. i offer interpretation, opinion and fact, to be taken or left. (leave it). but don't leaven it. anyway, i think we all gave our answer to the bread. i mean thread
oatmeal
Well-known member
Not at all.
Those two statements complement each other.
James' epistle and Paul's epistles complement each other.
Even as God had to teach and to reveal to Moses the law over time, even so, God was revealing this age of grace to those who could receive it.
James' epistle preceded Paul's epistles on the learning curve.
oatmeal
Well-known member
That's great, have you considered that rightly dividing can be a methodical process?
Ask Mr. Religion
☞☞☞☞Presbyterian (PCA) 	
Gold Subscriber
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
You will have to unpack this a wee bit more as I do not understand the real root issue without making possibly wrong assumptions.
On the surface the question seems to ask for my understanding of faith by Christ (i.e., his own faith...in what I wonder?) that was also given to the Apostles.
AMR
oatmeal
Well-known member
AMR,
I like what you said about needing for more specifics.
that is a hurdle that gets in the way of real discussion at times
Arsenios
Well-known member
Here was the question:
How do you understand obedience in Christ's Faith
which He gave to His Apostles...??
The Apostles received the Faith...
The Faith that they were given...
From Christ Who gave it to them...
That is why it is Christ's Faith...
And in this Faith of Christ which He discipled to His disciples who later became Apostles of Christ to send forth the Faith of Christ out upon all the earth, I am asking you how you understand the matter of obedience...
It is a very big question... The fall of Adam was through disobedience... And the incarnate Christ in His human nature was obedient unto shame and death... And when He sent His Apostles into the world to spread the Gospel, He instructed them to "Disciple all the Nations, teaching them to very carefully obey ALL that I have commanded you..."
And Paul writes: "Obey those who have been given the Rule over you as ones who will give account for your souls..."
So how do you and the PCUSA understand obedience in the Faith of Christ that He gave to His Apostles?
Arsenios
PS
Obedience is the hidden Treasury of Orthodoxy, you see...
Just as Papal Authoritarianisjm is the unhidden treasury of the Latins...
And Biblical Authority is that of most Protestants...
Arsenios
Well-known member
Delmar, you are OBVIOUSLY UNWORTHY of this lovely person who doubtless in a weak and unconsidered moment consented to become your wife... Marrying her is obviously the ONLY GOOD thing you have EVER done in your ENTIRE LIFE...
So you need to go to her RIGHT NOW, and place your face upon the dirt wherever she is standing, and soak her toes with your tears, begging her forgiveness for having had to breathe the same air as you have breathed for all these years...
And IF you do that, and I highly recommend that you do so, and IF you tell her that I suggested it, she will probably want to know MORE about this Orthodox Faith of Christ...
Jes' sayin'...
We have been empowering women since the Fall of Adam, I say!
And your face on the dirt at her toes can be YOUR Fall of Adam...
'Nuff!
Jes' a little un-Levitical levity, Delmar...
I mean, who else is a gonna tickle y'er hyde?
Arsenios
Ask Mr. Religion
☞☞☞☞Presbyterian (PCA) 	
Gold Subscriber
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
I have no idea how the PC(USA), a group well on its way beyond of anything that remotely resembles the Reformed tradition, understands this. Just sayin'.
That said, those of us within the PCA or others in the NAPARC groups take the view the goal of our Lord's commissioning of the Apostles was obedience to His commands --not merely initial conversion that seems to be the dominant theme of the "soul winning" numbers approach of some groups. Moreover, the commission to the Apostles was not the sad "every member an evangelist or minister" view that seems to be overtaking many church groups.
For more on this, see some very fine discussions on the topic:
http://opc.org/os.html?article_id=158&issue_id=46
http://opc.org/os.html?article_id=155&issue_id=46
http://opc.org/os.html?article_id=159&issue_id=46
AMR
I see little humor in this post. No doubt Delmar's wife is as lovely a woman as he is a wonderful man.
Arsenios
Well-known member
No doubt -
But what about self-abasement and martyrdom?
And who more needful than the gun-slinger?
No doubt -
Which makes it even funnier...
Delmar has a thankless job here...
I thank him for his taking it on...
Easing that burden is my joy...
Arsenios
Arsenios
Well-known member
I have no idea how the PC(USA), a group well on its way beyond of anything that remotely resembles the Reformed tradition, understands this. Just sayin'.
That said, those of us within the PCA or others in the NAPARC groups take the view the goal of our Lord's commissioning of the Apostles was obedience to His commands --not merely initial conversion that seems to be the dominant theme of the "soul winning" numbers approach of some groups. Moreover, the commission to the Apostles was not the sad "every member an evangelist or minister" view that seems to be overtaking many church groups.
For more on this, see some very fine discussions on the topic:
http://opc.org/os.html?article_id=158&issue_id=46
http://opc.org/os.html?article_id=155&issue_id=46
http://opc.org/os.html?article_id=159&issue_id=46
AMR
Looks like the PCA is becoming like Israel who persecuted Christians, for they first were taken over at the top, and then rejected, then persecuted, the Truth... And likewise, the Truth is now being ignored from those at the top, and the masses seem indifferent... Much like so many in the USA regarding political freedom...
I saw the you-tube video of the Orthodox monk speaking before the last congress of the PCA, and they did not hear him either... They voted for optional practicing-gay clergy...
So that you are involved in a rear-guard action slowing the onslaught, but unable to move offensively against the forces arrayed against you...
When He returns, will Christ find the Faith upon the earth?
I have not seen much evidence of obedience being discipled anywhere outside Orthodoxy... Our hierarchs disciple it by their own obedience... Not by telling others to be obedient, either to themselves [aka the Latins], nor to the Bible as the Pastor interprets it [aka the Reformation], but by demonstrating their own obedience even with the added burden of administrative duties, and thereby teaching it to the faithful...
Arsenios
Last edited: