ECT Does the book of James contradict Paul's epistles? How?

oatmeal

Well-known member
None at all, at least not when the truth is said about them

The truth is, works of faith as spoken of by James are works being done by God that cannot be done by man!........

Anything less than this is not the truth! After all, the atheist Bill Gates is one of the largest, if not the largest, contributor towards charity as are many other atheists. Truth is, if charities depended on Christians to be succesful, many of them would go belly up.

Bottom line is, anybody can do 'nice guy works' that have nothing to do with faith through Jesus Christ in them............... Amen? I think so!!!

Here is what Paul and others have to say about works being done through faith that are the same works that prove faith through the same standards set by James.

Acts 6:8 And Stephen, full of faith and power, did great wonders and miracles among the people.

Galatians 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?


True faith is not about how much you believe, but what you believe that is the truth! Having the truth in ones heart is the faith that matters, and allows God to respond to prayers made in "true faith" with signs and wonders of the magnitude that proves they were done by the only one who could do them, the same God who is our Father in heaven who looks for those He can appear strong on behalf of them as quoted in the verse below

2 Chronicles 16:9 For the eyes of the Lord run to and fro throughout the whole earth, to shew himself strong in the behalf of them whose heart is perfect toward him. Herein thou hast done foolishly: therefore from henceforth thou shalt have wars.

Faith that is not the truth will not result in miracles no matter how much someone believes that Jesus is going to rapture the church off of the face of the earth, or that one has to physically die to be resurrected from death onto life. This is why churches that believe in false doctrines such as a resurrection that includes a removal of the saints physically off of the earth are no longer witnessing miracles in their midst being done by God.

Doug

Yes, indeed.

Philanthropists without God do not merit eternal rewards.

It is the love we have toward God to obey His commandments that earns us eternal rewards.

As you well point out Bill Gates money does not buy miracles. It is believing God that can produce miracles.
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
Gen 15:6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.
Paul explains this all in great detail:
Rom 4:1-13 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? (2) For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. (3) For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. (4) Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. (5) But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. (6) Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, (7) Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. (8) Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. (9) Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. (10) How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision. (11) And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also: (12) And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised. (13) For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

Thank you!
 

Arsenios

Well-known member
I agree, 'to have ears that hear' is not just to understand the truth, but to live the truth

The problem we have in the west is that we understand the "hearing of faith" to mean the listening to of sermons preached from the pulpits of Sunday services...

No man can act like Christ or become Christ,
but Christ can become us
if we worship Him in spirit and in truth,

In living the Fall, we both have free will and we are fallen, so we all sin, yet we are free in any particular action to choose to do good or not, and this we learn as we grow up, being self-teachers under parental tuteledge, and taking on the issues of our parents... ('In sins did my mother bear me...") So that the Mystery carries forth even in our families...

Yet in the Path of Discipleship in the Faith of Christ, Paul enjoins us to IMITATE him, as he imitates Christ... And he is imitating someone he has not seen with his eyes... It can be argued from Scripture that he never even met Christ's Mother, the ever-Blessed Virgin, for She is never mentioned in his epistles, even though She IS mentioned is ALL the Gospels...

And this even in the Gospel of the disciple of Paul, Luke, the beloved physician, who wrote the 3rd Gospel...

Re.6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer

IMO this is the Voice of the Lord becoming both our King and our Conquer

Christians are called to live the eschatological end-times, living Spiritual lives in the Kingdom of Heaven upon this very earth, in Love and Joy and Prayer and Thanks-giving... The Kingdom of Heaven is Here and Now upon this earth, and has been since Pentecost, when it infused the Apostles with tongues of fire and power from above...

Their relationship with Christ is direct, as Ananias's conversation with Christ about Paul regarding his healing and baptizing... Only a little of that conversation was recorded in Scripture... But it IS recorded in Scripture what Ananias DID with Paul...

And those living this eschaton do gather and pray for the world, and partake of the Body and Blood of our Lord, each and every day...

You are right, we can repent and imitate our teachers and fathers in Christ, but as you say, we cannot save ourselves, because we do not have what only God can give, which is Himself... And THAT is Salvation...

Arsenios
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Only God can do the works of God. It was the Father in Jesus who did the works and not Jesus

Your emphasis has always been on the works of power, and that is what is wrong in your life.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
Mat 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
Mat 7:28 And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:
Mat 7:29 For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.
 

Livelystone

New member
Your emphasis has always been on the works of power,
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
Mat 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
Mat 7:28 And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:
Mat 7:29 For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.

As usual you have no idea what you are talking about

As the saying goes....... it is 'signs and wonders following'. When they are not following is because there is nothing worthwhile for them to be following after ....... and that is what is wrong in your life. :chuckle:

Get it?
 

Levolor

New member
Ephesians 3:4

Believers that want to know read

Please see post #325, 328 and 329 and you will see that your response here is not an answer. Well, it's an answer, but does not address what is being spoken about, and is assuming (a sin against one's own soul) that I do not already know the mysteries.
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
Please see post #325, 328 and 329 and you will see that your response here is not an answer. Well, it's an answer, but does not address what is being spoken about, and is assuming (a sin against one's own soul) that I do not already know the mysteries.

If you use the "new reply" icon, then it is not immediately apparent if there is a specific post you are replying to.

If you use the "quote" icon, your reply will contain the post you are replying to.

That would clear up any cases of mistaken identity
 

Arsenios

Well-known member
If you use the "new reply" icon, then it is not immediately apparent if there is a specific post you are replying to.

If you use the "quote" icon, your reply will contain the post you are replying to.

That would clear up any cases of
mistaken identity

I have to be dumber than the post you may hang y'er drawers on...

WAS THERE some MISTAKEN IDENTITY?

Would you answer my other question too?

Arsenios
 

Arsenios

Well-known member
Your response here is not an answer.

The silence on issues is deafening...

The retreat profound...

The sneering mouths are stopped...

Glory to God in all things!

Remove the claws and fangs,
The insults and snarkiness,
and all that remains is silence...

Not even a conversation...

I do not believe it was ever about a conversation...

It was about personal superiority...

Their bullying was their objective...

I am sincerely and pleasantly astonished that we have not been removed from posting... When the Keatings on Catholic Answers figured out that they were losing their encounters with us [Orthodox Catholics] and that Papal Catholics were converting to Orthodoxy, they got rid of us in a heartbeat, shocked that their dollars were paying for a website that was losing not only the arguments but the falsely led sheep as well...

TOL so far has not gotten rid of us...

They are pretty much licking their wounds and keeping their heads down... By my standards, that is the right thing for them to do... And shows a lovel of integrity missing on Catholic Answers Forum...

God bless ya, Blind Slats Levelor!

This is a rough medium...

And war is hell...

Arsenios
 

Levolor

New member
The silence on issues is deafening...

The retreat profound...

The sneering mouths are stopped...

Glory to God in all things!

Hallelujah, Arsenios!
Remove the claws and fangs,
The insults and snarkiness,
and all that remains is silence...

Not even a conversation...

I do not believe it was ever about a conversation...

It was about personal superiority...

Their bullying was their objective...

Yes. You have hit the bulls-eye, I believe.

I praise God that the glory of God is going forth.

I am sincerely and pleasantly astonished that we have not been removed from posting... When the Keatings on Catholic Answers figured out that they were losing their encounters with us [Orthodox Catholics] and that Papal Catholics were converting to Orthodoxy, they got rid of us in a heartbeat, shocked that their dollars were paying for a website that was losing not only the arguments but the falsely led sheep as well...

TOL so far has not gotten rid of us...

They are pretty much licking their wounds and keeping their heads down... By my standards, that is the right thing for them to do... And shows a lovel of integrity missing on Catholic Answers Forum...

I too am pleasant surprised. I do greatly appreciate such a forum that pretty much lets it's people speak about most things.
God bless ya, Blind Slats Levelor!

LOL :) God bless you, too, my dear friend Arsenios.

This is a rough medium...

And war is hell...

Arsenios

Definitely not for the faint of heart.

Forgive my few words this evening. An interior silence has enveloped me for the past couple of days.
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
As usual you have no idea what you are talking about

As the saying goes....... it is 'signs and wonders following'. When they are not following is because there is nothing worthwhile for them to be following after ....... and that is what is wrong in your life. :chuckle:

Get it?

You are slighting the Lord, not me.

You are still judging people by the miracles which you have absolutely no idea of whether they exist in others lives or not.

LA
 

Livelystone

New member
You are slighting the Lord, not me.

You are still judging people by the miracles which you have absolutely no idea of whether they exist in others lives or not.

LA

Actually I do because God's miracles glorify Him but all I hear everywhere I look is worship coming from the traditions and doctrines of man

Furthermore, whenever I have checked out a miracle being claimed by some church, to this day I have yet find witness of a real miracle (other than something like "the pastor prayed for my headache" or backache, or some other ache to go away and it did) In other words nothing of any significance that glorifies God the way real miracles do.

True miracles glorify God, consequently He is not one to miss an opportunity to do one and He has promised us to do so. However, He is not about to slight His own Holiness and those who have made the effort to find the truth by granting miracles to prayers from those who are still in bondage to their flesh and "earthly doctrines" coming from those who do not obey Him on how to study His Holy Word.

One does not have to know it all to witness miracles of healing that could not be done by any other source than being done by God. I know of a former priest amongst the ingenious Peruvian Indians who before he was taught doctrines by the church in the USA who sponsored the missionaries he first met, he had very little knowledge other than Jesus saves and heals......... The good news is because he did not have any false doctrines in his heart, miracles were happening amongst the poor Indians so often it was like a weekly occurrence........ I saw a picture of him laying hands on and praying over a female child while a healing light from the Spirit of God could be seen coming through his hands and her head

Then the church here in the states sent a bishop to teach him church doctrines. LOL, no SELF RESPECTING church in the USA is going to miss out on a chance to coral someone working miracles and try to turn something done by God into a profit making venture for them. (Like a local pastor tried to do when I was recently healed of lung cancer when he tied my miracle to his offering collection even though he never knew I was sick, let alone healed, until all was said, done, and over with.

Anyway, when the Bishop was done teaching the priest his church's version of their false doctrines the damage had been done, Consequently. there was never another miracle witnessed coming from this priest....... the really sad part was his wife ended up getting cancer and died after he for over a year, had been the one praying for others who were healed of cancer......... what a bummer

God is serious about His children getting out of Babylon....... for sure there are no mainstream denominational churches who are not part of Babylon. I hope there are some others somewhere but I would not bet on it. When I needed a miracle there was only one person I could call.......but that was all it took, one person worshipping in Truth, and God took care of the rest.

Speaking about truth, why don't you go learn some and quit trying to throw Saul's spears my way

Fair enough?
 
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Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Actually I do because God's miracles glorify Him but all I hear everywhere I look is worship coming from the traditions and doctrines of man

Furthermore, whenever I have checked out a miracle being claimed by some church, to this day I have yet find witness of a real miracle (other than something like "the pastor prayed for my headache" or backache, or some other ache to go away and it did) In other words nothing of any significance that glorifies God the way real miracles do.

True miracles glorify God, consequently He is not one to miss an opportunity to do one and He has promised us to do so. However, He is not about to slight His own Holiness and those who have made the effort to find the truth by granting miracles to prayers from those who are still in bondage to their flesh and "earthly doctrines" coming from those who do not obey Him on how to study His Holy Word.

One does not have to know it all to witness miracles of healing that could not be done by any other source than being done by God. I know of a former priest amongst the ingenious Peruvian Indians who before he was taught doctrines by the church in the USA who sponsored the missionaries he first met he had very little knowledge other than Jesus saves and heals......... The good news is because he did not have any false doctrines in his heart, miracles were happening amongst the poor Indians so often it was like a weekly occurrence........ I saw a picture of him laying hands on and praying over a female child while a healing light from the Spirit of God could be seen coming through his hands and her head

Then the church here in the states sent a bishop to teach him church doctrines. LOL, no SELF RESPECTING church in the USA is going to miss out on a chance to coral someone working miracles and try to turn something done by God into a profit making venture for them. (Like a local pastor tried to do when I was recently healed of lung cancer when he tied my miracle to his offering collection even though he never knew I was sick, let alone healed, until all was said, done, and over with.

Anyway, when the Bishop was done teaching the priest his church's version of their false doctrines the damage had been done, Consequently. there was never another miracle witnessed coming from this priest....... the really sad part was his wife ended up getting cancer and died after he for over a year, had been the one praying for others who were healed of cancer......... what a bummer

God is serious about His children getting out of Babylon....... for sure there are no mainstream denominational churches who are not part of Babylon. I hope there are some others somewhere but I would not bet on it. When I needed a miracle there was only one person I could call.......but that was all it took, one person worshipping in Truth, and God took care of the rest.

Speaking about truth, why don't you go learn some and quit trying to throw Saul's spears my way

Fair enough?

I was correcting you on your judging by the existence of miracles or not, and you call that Sauls spears.

LA
 
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