Right Divider
Body part
Sorry, I don't have a religion. Maybe that's my problem.
I believe everything that the Lord Jesus Christ says, even the stuff He said AFTER His ASCENSION to HEAVEN.
ECT Does the book of James contradict Paul's epistles? How?
- Thread starter oatmeal
- Start date
I believe everything that the Lord Jesus Christ says, even the stuff He said AFTER His ASCENSION to HEAVEN.
Well His legs are in Heaven and you are on earth so that disqualifies you from being a member of His body.
LA
heir
TOL Subscriber
The "we" who "first trusted in Christ" (Ephesians 1:12 KJV) beginning with the apostle Paul (1 Timothy 1:16 KJV), including the Romans, Corinthians, Galatians, and Thessalonians
and
the "ye" which "also trusted" (Ephesians 1:13 KJV)Ephesians, Colossians, Philippians
Ephesians 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Ephesians 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
Ephesians 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
Ephesians 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
heir
TOL Subscriber
What a nutty thing to say.
Colossians 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
Colossians 3:2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
Colossians 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
Colossians 3:4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
heir
TOL Subscriber
wrong
Arsenios
Well-known member
Scripture is filled with paradoxes which approach the Mystery of the Faith which is being held in a purified conscience, and not it some humanistic system of non-contradictory statements...
For man to seize on these paradoxes and insist that they are contradictions is to carnalize Holy Writ... Reducing Scripture to logical systems is a carnal endeavor...
That is why Christ spoke the truth in parables, understood by some, and not by others... It is why Paul calls the Faith of Christ a MYSTERY HELD (by man in a purified conscience) and NOT a RATIONALIZED SYSTEM of fallen human thinking...
The dogmas of the Faith are not rationally derived... They are but descriptive and hence empirical... And the WAY to their apprehension is purification of the heart, and not endless arguing...
What is needed is an Orthodox understanding of the Paradoxes of the Faith, which is attained under the discipleship of the Apostolic Church...
The rest is tinker-toys...
Arsenios
For man to seize on these paradoxes and insist that they are contradictions is to carnalize Holy Writ... Reducing Scripture to logical systems is a carnal endeavor...
That is why Christ spoke the truth in parables, understood by some, and not by others... It is why Paul calls the Faith of Christ a MYSTERY HELD (by man in a purified conscience) and NOT a RATIONALIZED SYSTEM of fallen human thinking...
The dogmas of the Faith are not rationally derived... They are but descriptive and hence empirical... And the WAY to their apprehension is purification of the heart, and not endless arguing...
What is needed is an Orthodox understanding of the Paradoxes of the Faith, which is attained under the discipleship of the Apostolic Church...
The rest is tinker-toys...
Arsenios
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
You just need to ask yourself why Paul refers to Abram before circumcision and James refers to Abraham after circumcision.
That should be the starting point in all of this.
oatmeal
Well-known member
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Not sure what you mean...
Yes you do, Christ rejector.
Thanks, Christ rejector!!! I take that spam is a compliment- a Christ rejector not approving of me. Thanks again!
Arsenios
Well-known member
If you start there, then Christ was born under the Law...
He fulfilled the Law...
And indeed He IS the fulfillment of the Law...
THEREFORE...
WE, who are reborn in Christ, and who are one with Him, are to ALSO be the fulfillment of the Law but now in obedience to Christ in the flesh on earth...
And THAT obedience means to be obedient to the Ellkesia who are members of the Body of Christ walking the earth even to this day...
And this is what Christ commanded His Apostles to DISCIPLE in all the Nations, that they observe with exactitude ALL that Christ had commanded His Apostles to be doing...
This is OBEDIENCE: The Nations are to obey the Apostles sent by Christ to disciple them... That is why all the Apostolic Churches function in the same manner, or very close to it, even the Papal Latins... (though less so)
Christian Righteousness must exceed that of the Pharisees...
And it does...
Arsenios
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Only your fellow demons approve of you JohnW.
So much for your belief system .
You and they, do not know the difference between Christ and the devil.
LA
heir
TOL Subscriber
saint john w approves things that are excellent. You are insincere and an offence!
Philippians 1:9 And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment;
Philippians 1:10 That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ;
Be gone!
oatmeal
Well-known member
Thanks again, Christ rejector, and for your spam!!
Child of the devil....even you know it....Ssssssssssssssssss.......
Right Divider
Body part
Not with regard to Abraham's justification without works.
Rom 4:1-5 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? (2) For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. (3) For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. (4) Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. (5) But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
The "what saith the scripture?" refers to this:
Gen 15:6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.
Circumcision does not come until Genesis 17, so YES Paul is referring to Abraham in his UNCIRCUMCISION.
Could Paul be any clearer?
Rom 4:10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.
James on the other hand, refers to Abraham offering his son.Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
This is recorded in Genesis 22, AFTER Abraham's circumcision. So YES, James refers to Abraham in his CIRCUMCISION.
Last edited:
Arsenios
Well-known member
Paul is weaning Christians from the Jewish perception of one needing to be circumcised under the Law in order to become Christians...
James was NOT weaning Christians from that perception...
Paul was sent to effect the self-governing of the Gentiles in Christ...
James was sent to be the first Patriarch [Pope] of Jerusalem...
It was Paul who went to Jerusalem to get the blessing [ruling] from the Church [of the Saints] in Jerusalem for baptizing Gentiles directly into Christ, and it was Peter who argued on Paul's behalf...
Had there been two Gospels - One for the Circumcision and one for the uncircumcision - That would have been a central feature of that ruling by James... It was NOT... Not at all...
Act 15:5
But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed,
saying,
That it was needful to circumcise them,
and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
The ruling simply stated:
Act 15:7-9
And when there had been much disputing,
Peter rose up, and said unto them,
Men and brethren,
ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us,
that the Gentiles by my mouth
should hear the word of the gospel,
and believe.
And God, which knoweth the hearts,
bare them witness,
giving them the Holy Spirit,
even as he did unto us;
And put no difference between us and them,
purifying their hearts by the Faith.
And this James affirmed and said:
Act 15:19
Wherefore my sentence is,
that we not trouble them,
which from among the Gentiles
are turned to God:
So plainly there is no difference between the Jews and the Gentiles in Christ... And this the Jews affirmed in Jerusalem, and distributed to ALL the Churches in all the lands... That the Law and Circumcision be NOT imposed on the Gentiles becoming Christians...
They could be baptized into Christ not knowing the Law and not having been circumcised...
Otherwise, no difference...
MAD theory fails here, as it does so terribly in so many places...
Arsenios
Last edited:
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Why will you not cast the demons out of john? Have you freely received the gift?