Does Luke 19:44 disprove Preterism?

[john w]

The whole church wasn't gathered in 70AD

In fact, Jesus made it clear in Luke 21 for the Christians to flee Judea, to flee the city, and for those in the country not to go to the city.

(Luke 21:21) Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city.

Luke 21:21 is the exact opposite of a gathering


The dead in Christ were resurrected and taken to heaven. No one saw this happen



That's not what Paul says.

Paul says those of us who are alive AND REMAIN....

We are here now, we live in the new covenant, we are supposed to preach the gospel of Christ, and everyday more people enter the Body of Christ.

Why is that a bad thing?

You deny that members of the boc will have their bodies redeemed, you pervert.


A main component, pervert, of the bible, it's themes, pervert, the foundation of the gospel of Christ, 1 Cor. 15 ff...is not just "soul/spiritual salvation/deliverance," but redemption of the(physical, by definition) body, resurrection/redemption of the body, to restore "that which was lost" at "the fall" in Genesis, the "regeneration,"...........


Here is another, big fat lie, from pudgy, Preterist perverter, Tellalie Craigie:



"Tet: "The LORD Jesus Christ returned in the form of a Roman Army." "-STP

"Never said that."-Tet.


Lie-

"Tet is a preterist that believes Christ already returned in 70 AD via the Roman Army."-Tambora, on another TOL thread

"Correct, and thanks for making it clear that it was the Roman army that was His return."-stupid Craigie


"The Roman army destroyed Jerusalem in 70AD. That is what Jesus meant when He said He will return."-Gomer Tet.


Vs.

He lies, again:


"Jesus never physically returned, and never will physically return to planet earth after He ascended to Heaven"-Preterist deceiver Tet.


=satanic, also, as no scripture says that the Lord Jesus Chris would lose His "flesh and bone" glorified, resurrected body, with which He ascended to the third heaven, when He returned-NADA. Satanic Preterism, Craigie being a shill, makes this up.


The lie...according to this Preterist con job, in this "man made" AD 70-ism "belief system," he returned "un physically," but everyone saw Him, and signs are invisible.


“And that is what happened. The Lord came in a way that everyone could see Him. However, He never touched planet earth, and when this event was over, He then sat on the throne in Heaven NOT on planet earth.”-Tet.

Ascended up physically, never returned physically in AD 70, just as some disembodied spirit, everyone saw Him, even though he did not return physically in AD 70.

Wait....it was the Roman army.


You wicked deceiver.


Now for over the 100th time, Craigie, identify this "everyone"that allegedly saw this "Jesus" return in 70 AD, this "Jesus" who returned with no "flesh and bone," but merely a "disembodied spirit."


Gives us names, citations.
___________________

Hebrews 9:28 KJV

so Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.


Vs. Preterist Perverter Craigie Tellalie:

"The Roman army destroyed Jerusalem in 70AD. That is what Jesus meant when He said He will return."-Gomer Tet.


Shazam, Gomer Tellalie! The Roman army was looking for the Saviour, for their salvation/deliverance, and He appeared to them!!!!!! That is the second coming!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Preterist scam snake oil................

 

[steko]

This was fulfilled in 70AD:

Luk 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
Luk 21:21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
Luk 21:22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
Luk 21:23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
Luk 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations:

This was happening in the 1st century and continues to this day:

and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

This is yet to be and is in harmony with prophetic Scripture concerning 'the day of the Lord'/second coming/kingdom coming/restoration of kingdom to Israel/the reestablishment of David's throne under the rule of Israel's Messiah:

Luk 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
Luk 21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
Luk 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

There are signs in nature which indicate the change of seasons:

Luk 21:29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;
Luk 21:30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.

Likewise, when people see the things described in vs 25-28(not vs 20-24) then know that the kingdom of GOD(Kingdom promised to Israel in the prophets) is nigh at hand. Not Pentecost and not 70AD, but yet future:

Luk 21:31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.

The generation that witnesses the events of vs 25-28 is 'this generation'.

Luk 21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

Is certain:

Luk 21:33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

The destruction of Jerusalem by Titus and Vespasian was not something that happened to its inhabitants 'unawares'. It was years in the making and it was not something that came upon the whole earth.


Luk 21:34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
Luk 21:35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
Luk 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

In these verses, Christ speaks of the destruction of Jerusalem, then the escalated diaspora, the ongoing trampling of Jerusalem by the nations, then He speaks of His second coming and His Kingdom coming to earth.
'This generation' is the generation which witnesses the signs which occur immediately before His second coming to earth, at which time He will sit on His glorious throne, the throne of David promised to Him, and He will judge the nations as sheep and goats Mt 25:31-32.

 

[john w]

This was fulfilled in 70AD:

Luk 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
Luk 21:21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
Luk 21:22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
Luk 21:23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
Luk 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations:

This was happening in the 1st century and continues to this day:

and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

This is yet to be and is in harmony with prophetic Scripture concerning 'the day of the Lord'/second coming/kingdom coming/restoration of kingdom to Israel/the reestablishment of David's throne under the rule of Israel's Messiah:

Luk 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
Luk 21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
Luk 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

There are signs in nature which indicate the change of seasons:

Luk 21:29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;
Luk 21:30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.

Likewise, when people see the things described in vs 25-28(not vs 20-24) then know that the kingdom of GOD(Kingdom promised to Israel in the prophets) is nigh at hand. Not Pentecost and not 70AD, but yet future:

Luk 21:31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.

The generation that witnesses the events of vs 25-28 is 'this generation'.

Luk 21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

Is certain:

Luk 21:33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

The destruction of Jerusalem by Titus and Vespasian was not something that happened to its inhabitants 'unawares'. It was years in the making and it was not something that came upon the whole earth.


Luk 21:34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
Luk 21:35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
Luk 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

In these verses, Christ speaks of the destruction of Jerusalem, then the escalated diaspora, the ongoing trampling of Jerusalem by the nations, then He speaks of His second coming and His Kingdom coming to earth.
'This generation' is the generation which witnesses the signs which occur immediately before His second coming to earth, at which time He will sit on His glorious throne, the throne of David promised to Him, and He will judge the nations as sheep and goats Mt 25:31-32.

Well said, ko of ste. He cannot "touch you," biblically, and all he will do is come back with more made up assertions, lies, sophistry, that you/others have picked apart previously, or spam....

"Darby....Fulfilled....Don't you believe the bible/God/"Jesus"/Paul?.....You are in denial...Figurative....Darby....Dou really think( )is literal?....Allegory....Not one MADist's can answer.............Hyperbole.....Land promise fulfilled inn Christ Jesus-don't you believe that?.....Why is that so hard for you to understand?....Fulfilled AD 70.....Fleshly....Darby.....Fulfilled AD 70.....Darby............................Another Darby follower in denial....No one taught.........Fulfilled.....Inventions of men.....You follow the teachings of men.....You follow the teachings of fallable men....I was a dispensationalist for 27 years....MAD suffers another death knell...This one verse disproves dispensationalism....Darby.... Fulfilled AD 70....Darby....Invented during age of cults.....Bullinger.....Rapture from vision of teenage girl.....Darby....Fulfilled AD 70....Darby..."


Cricket....cricket..........

 

[George Affleck]

How could Jesus have commissioned the church to preach the good news in all the world making disciples of every nation in less than 50 years?

Tot,

You know I hold you in high esteem and this is not meant to cause division, but, if I may respectfully suggest the following to show that not all the evidence exists only on the futurist's side:

How is it possible for Paul to say; "If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;" Col 1:23KJV

"Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:" Col 1:6KJV

"But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world." Rom 10:18KJV

The answer to reconciling these and other verses with the Lord's prediction in Matt 24:14KJV that the Gospel would be preached everywhere in the known world prior to the end of the age of the Jews is found at Pentecost. There were, in Jerusalem, Jews out of every nation under heaven and they heard the Gospel preached to them in their own languages. They were converted, 3000 of them, and took the Good News back to their various countries and founded Christian churches which, by the power of the Holy Spirit, flourished. In this regard, it is important to note that Jesus specifically used the qualifying term "as a witness" in Matt 24:14KJV and did not intend us to think every last person would be evangelized.

It is very important to understand the real meaning of Acts Chapter 2 and, because I can't post it here, please read it again. It was, actually, what kick-started worldwide Christianity.

 

[tetelestai]

The generation that witnesses the events of vs 25-28 is 'this generation'.

Nope.

You would have to throw all the rules of grammar out the window for "this generation" to be a future generation.

EVERY TIME Christ Jesus used the phrase "this generation" in the gospels, He was specifically referring to the generation of His contemporaries.

Also, to claim that half of verse 24 was fulfilled in 70AD, and the other half is still being fulfilled even today is ridiculous.

No matter how hard you Dispensationalists try, none of you have an explanation for Luke 21, Matt 24, or Mark 13 that is valid.

 

[tetelestai]

In these verses, Christ speaks of the destruction of Jerusalem, then the escalated diaspora, the ongoing trampling of Jerusalem by the nations, then He speaks of His second coming and His Kingdom coming to earth.

(Mark 13:30 KJV) Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.

Now, go read ALL THESE THINGS that are described before verse 30 in Mark 13.

 

[tetelestai]

This was fulfilled in 70AD:

Luk 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
Luk 21:21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
Luk 21:22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
Luk 21:23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.

Compare with Matt 24

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

You just proved that the abomination of desolation (spoken by Daniel) stood in the temple in 70AD

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Nope.

You would have to throw all the rules of grammar out the window for "this generation" to be a future generation.

EVERY TIME Christ Jesus used the phrase "this generation" in the gospels, He was specifically referring to the generation of His contemporaries.

Also, to claim that half of verse 24 was fulfilled in 70AD, and the other half is still being fulfilled even today is ridiculous.

No matter how hard you Dispensationalists try, none of you have an explanation for Luke 21, Matt 24, or Mark 13 that is valid.

Mat 1:1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

 

[tetelestai]

Mat 1:1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

And?

In Matt 24:34, the word "this" is a demonstrative adjective that modifies the noun "generation".

In Matt 1:1, the word "the" is a definite article, and the noun is "generation".

There is nothing similar between the two verses, and the NIV is a much better translation of Matt 1:1

(Matt 1:1 NIV) This is the genealogy of Jesus the Messiah the son of David, the son of Abraham:

 

[john w]

Nope.

You would have to throw all the rules of grammar out the window for "this generation" to be a future generation.

Vs.

"Spelling was never one of my strong points."-Tetellalie

You fraud, con artist.

EVERY TIME Christ Jesus used the phrase "this generation" in the gospels, He was specifically referring to the generation of His contemporaries.

As usual, the hypocrite wines, and pines, and cries, about "Darby....Bullinger," all the while, littering TOL, with his Preterist/AD 70 dung, and just copynpasting/plagiarizing, from his satanic Preterist/AD 70-ism "teachers." His last quote is plagiarized from:

-http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/mat08.html

And notice his AD 70-ism guru, J. Stuart Russell, whom Tetellalie quotes often, word for word, plagiarizing his works, is cited:

"Matthew 24:32-34 (NKJV) "Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near; at the doors! Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place."

James Stuart Russell said, "Words have no meaning if this language, uttered on so solemn an occasion, and so precise and express in its import, does not affirm the near approach of the great event which occupies the whole discourse of our Lord." I agree, if this language doesn't mean that the things he spoke of are near, it doesn't mean anything."

-Jun 17, 2005 by Gary DeMar


http://americanvision.org/1769/letting-bible-speak-for-itself-literal-meaning-of-generation-part-6/

-and many others...

And the punk asserts that he learned all, of what he "teaches," on TOL, from just studying the bible, while criticizing others for "following the teaching/invention of men/Darby."

You fraud, con man, hypocrite, plagiarizer.


You follow Demar, Hannegraaf, Gentry, Russell. You are in denial.Why do you follow the teachings of "fallable men," Craigie, and, plagiarize from them?


Seed how that works, liar, hypocrite?


Plagiarizing is against TOL rules, Craigie. You do it on every third post, and I've cited your word for word plagiarizing, over 50 times on TOL.


We know you are unemployed, but theft is a sin, Craigie. Don't you believe the bible, "Jesus," Paul, Craigie?

 

[john w]

No matter how hard you Dispensationalists try, none of you have an explanation for.

As I predicted-the punk spams that on every 4th post, all the while having no explanation for the last 50 questions I've given him.

You lying punk. No wonder you're unemployed.

 

[George Affleck]

Mat 1:1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

The word used here is γένεσις which means source, origin or lineage.

The word in Mat 24:34KJV is γενεά which usually means a natural generation of 30+ years.

They are derived from the same root but with different meanings.

 

[tetelestai]

No matter how hard Dispensationalists try, they can't explain Matt 24, Luke 21, or Mark 13.

Top excuses Dispies use:

1) "this" really means "that"

2) "generation" means all Jews, or all people

3) "all these things" only refers to the part about the stones.

4) There were still some stones left standing, so none of the prophecies happened yet.

5) There is a secret subjunctive mood in verse 34 of Matthew

 

[patrick jane]

As I predicted-the punk spams that on every 4th post, all the while having no explanation for the last 50 questions I've given him.

You lying punk. No wonder you're unemployed.

Tet doesn't work ?

 

[Lazy afternoon]

The word used here is γένεσις which means source, origin or lineage.

The word in Mat 24:34KJV is γενεά which usually means a natural generation of 30+ years.

They are derived from the same root but with different meanings.

Context is king--

Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Mat 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
Mat 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

LA

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

StP, fascinating point you raise. Genea can also mean an age.

It's also interesting that He said "this generation will not pass away," not "will not die."

Must :think: more on this...

Yes, I think it's a possibility, because of the way the generation of vipers is linked all the way back to Cain.

"Neither in this world, nor the world to come"

Neither in this generation, nor the regeneration.

 

[musterion]

"Neither in this world, nor the world to come"

Neither in this generation, nor the regeneration.

So if He meant that that wicked, faithless genea would remain and not pass away (not "die") until all is fulfilled, having the prophetic program interrupted by this dispensation of grace poses no problem.

On the other hand, insisting that that the [human] genea to which He spoke did die off demands a belief that all that was foretold must have already happened...preterism.

So it all hinges on how one decides Christ used genea...as strictly talking about one small group of humans alive at that moment, or more of a whole faithless era from the start of history.

Very interesting.

 

[tetelestai]

Neither in this generation, nor the regeneration.

More desperation by you.

It doesn't say "neither in this generation, nor the regeneration".

You made that up.

The word "regeneration" is found in the KJV two times. Matt 19:28, and Titus 3:5

Both times "regeneration" is used to describe a new birth.

 

[tetelestai]

So it all hinges on how one decides Christ used genea...as strictly talking about one small group of humans alive at that moment, or more of a whole faithless era from the start of history.

When the demonstrative adjective "this" is used in front of the noun "generation", and then noun "generation" is in the singular form (as it is), it means that particular generation of men.

All you and STP are doing is showing how desperate the two of you are because you both know neither of you has ever given a valid explanation for Matt 24, Luke 21, or Mark 13.

 

[lifeisgood]

It only appears to be parroting because anyone who understands the Bible literally will come to the same basic conclusions as Darby did, without ever hearing of the man named Darby.

On the other hand, those who read the Bible with an allegorical interpretation, need someone to inform them of which made-up symbolic meaning is to be imposed on the text.

:thumb: