Does Luke 19:44 disprove Preterism?

[john w]

Coming from a professional, that means a lot.

I have no quarrel with you, but stay out of it, Ben, with your sound bytes, as this Craigie Tellalie punk, is the biggest habitual liar on TOL, engaging in deceit, lie after lie, hypocrisy, sophistry, false accusations, and satanic "arguments," anything, to satisfy his obsession. You'd know that, had you paid attention to his "posts" over the years, as we have. But, no, instead, you swoop in here, with emotional diatribes/jabs at GM(who does defend, and has defended, quite well, for years, on TOL, the dispensational interpretive method), w/o checking out, carefully, the details of this devil boy Craigie's "argument,"what he "argues," but, I suspect, because he agrees with you in the Preterist viewpoint, you won't challenge his deceit, contradictions, white wall hypocrisy, and arguments of sophistry.

 

[whitestone]

Jerusalem is referred to as "Babylon" in Revelation.

Jerusalem is also referred to as a "she" in Revelation who has committed adultery with other nations.



I don't think that's the right verse, but yes the woman is Jerusalem.

well thats what I think also that Israel/Jerusalem is Babylon. Why is that the more you think about it the description of the beast in Daniel is a little different than in Revelation the difference is that there is no woman riding the beast in Daniel. In thinking about things scriptural she wasn't "riding" the beast in Daniels day she was in bondage to Nebuchadnezzar.


also I gave the other scripture (Revelation 18:23 KJV) because before ad70 she was the place,nation,city where the candle,light word of God ect. was centered and then in ad70 it was "put out" the same way described in the letters to the seven churches were warned in the beginning of Revelation i.e. "lest I remove your candlestick"

 

[whitestone]

So help me with this part,,,

in ad70,,the head,babylon(Nebuchadnezzar govt.) is still a government(not in the pit),,Medo Persia,still exist(not in the pit),,,Greece is still a government (small but still they are not in the pit),,and Rome was the government in ad70 so clearly they are not (in the pit) even if we chunk in Egypt in ad70 it was still a government and was not in the pit. So of all those mentioned in Daniels description Israel/Jerusalem is the only one that in the year ad70 who was completely destroyed and "IN THE PIT" right?

 

[tetelestai]

Please provide the precise words of Josephus himself, that he, him, himself, say that he, him, himself, saw Jesus Christ in Jerusalem in 70AD.

Who said Jesus Christ was in Jerusalem in 70AD?

 

[whitestone]

tet,do you agree with what is in post 585,592,602 and 603? if not what?,,,

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Coming from a professional, that means a lot.

I appreciate that.

 

[musterion]

Please provide the precise words of Josephus himself, that he, him, himself, say that he, him, himself, saw Jesus Christ in Jerusalem in 70AD.

You ask that only because dispensation desperate Darby Bullinger desperate embarrass Darby manmade...

Thus are you refuted.

- Spanky

 

[Totton Linnet]

Does Tet really believe that Satan is already chained up for a thousand years?

This is an AMAZING Preterist doctrine

 

[musterion]

If you can believe the last 2000 years is the best God can do with His earthly Kingdom, there is nothing you can't believe.

 

[musterion]

Did Spanky ever post what he thinks is true about dispensationalism?

 

[tetelestai]

This is an AMAZING Preterist doctrine

Satan is bound, and cannot deceive the nations.

 

[tetelestai]

If you can believe the last 2000 years is the best God can do with His earthly Kingdom, there is nothing you can't believe.

There is no such thing as an "earthly kingdom".

Christ Jesus made it clear that His kingdom is not of this world.

 

[tetelestai]

tet,do you agree with what is in post 585,592,602 and 603? if not what?,,,

I think I agree with the first three.

Can you explain 603 a little better?

I believe the four beasts that come out of the "sea" are Babylon, Persia, Greece, and Rome. These are the four nations that have ruled over Israel since the time of Daniel to 70AD.

("Sea" means out of the pagan Gentile nations. Which is why the new heavens and new earth (new covenant) no longer have a "sea".)

Anyway, you were asking about these nations being thrown into a pit with Israel? Is that correct?

 

[George Affleck]

If you can believe the last 2000 years is the best God can do with His earthly Kingdom, there is nothing you can't believe.

It constantly amazes me how huge portions of scripture that should help shape our theology are ignored in favour of abandoning faith to futurism. We are specifically told to expect what we see yet Jesus' finished work is not good enough for those who think they know better than God.

For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

When Jesus says; "I go to prepare a place for you", we say; "Ya, but you are coming back to prepare a place for us here, right? We love this place and would prefer you would do something terrific here. We will sit under this gourd and wait."

When Jesus says; "In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.", we say; "We can see the world is not overcome. Give us a kingdom we can see with our eyes instead of hollow words. We will sit under this gourd and wait."

When Jesus says; "For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.", we say; "Ya, but you are going to really do a number sometime later, right? We will sit under this gourd and wait."

And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

 

[Zeke]

Musterion says that Luke 19:44KJV, Luke 19:44NIV disproves preterism. I wonder what this means?

I assume he means that, although the city was, for all intents and purposes, razed to the ground, not every last stone was cast down by the Romans. (perhaps he will clarify) I take Jesus' prediction to have been completely fulfilled in 70 A.D. give or take a few bricks. What do you think?

Here are other biblical examples of the literary device 'synecdoche' (a figure of speech in which a part is made to represent the whole or vice versa) that is used by Jesus in Luke 19:44 to describe the complete and final desolation of Jerusalem and the Temple as predicted by Daniel.

"Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan," Matt 3:5KJV. Was the entire city emptied or is this a synecdoche?

"And, behold, the whole city came out to meet Jesus: and when they saw him, they besought him that he would depart out of their coasts." Matt 8:34KJV Was this, in fact, every last person or is this a synecdoche?

"And all the city was gathered together at the door." Mark 1:33KJV Either this was a very crowded door, or this is an example of a synecdoche.

The temple and city are most's likely symbolic Galatians 4:24-28, the parabolic teaching using the visible Kingdom (John 2:20-21) to teach a deeper truth about a Kingdom not of this world, Luke 17:20-21, John 18:36, John 11:25.

If taken literal then the "words before all these things" Luke 21:12-28, must happen "before" the events of Luke 21:7-11 after the time of the Gentiles/Nations which 70AD was the start of not the ending. Historic silence leans toward the Allegorical/Esoteric being the most reliable interpretation seeing the Temple of God/Spiritual is made without hands and none observable to the carnal eyes.

 

[musterion]

The problem remains. If this has been and is the culmination of the Kingdom, not only do things inexplicably grow worse by the day (even hardened God deniers can see that), there's no looking forward to it getting any better because this is it. This is the reign of Christ.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

He is a Russell-ite, King-ite, besides being a Hankie Hanegraaf groupie.

Sheer Breenism?

 

[tetelestai]

[/B] This is the reign of Christ.

A king can't reign without enemies.

Christ Jesus and the Saints are reigning until all His enemies are put under his feet.

(1 Cor 15:25) For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.

 

[steko]

The problem remains. If this has been and is the culmination of the Kingdom, not only do things inexplicably grow worse by the day (even hardened God deniers can see that), there's no looking forward to it getting any better because this is it. This is the reign of Christ.

This Is It

 

[musterion]

A king can't reign without enemies.

Christ Jesus and the Saints are reigning until all His enemies are put under his feet.

(1 Cor 15:25) For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.

When did the resurrection of 1 Cor 15:23 happen?