Does God know the future?

Clete

Clete

Truth Smacker
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Johnny said:
What are you talking about? I asked how one would measure time if all events ceased.
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This is a non-sequitor. The measurement of time is itself an event. As long as God exists there will be events. If nothing else, God's existence itself would be an event so your question is a contradiction.

You've presented a good argument that God acts in time, but that does not mean He is bound by time. Why can't he jump forward or backwards in time?
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Because it is irrational for one to go to a place that does not exist. To do it would be to not do it. It is self-contradictory and therefore irrational.

Resting in Him,
Clete
 
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Agape4Robin

Agape4Robin

Member
Clete said:
Yes I'm serious and I never suggested that Jesus wouldn't have fulfilled them just as they were described. They are not describing events in great detail though and so had God fulfilled such prophecy in an entirely different way, they would still have been fulfilled and you would be here arguing that Jesus could not have died on a cross. As I said, you cannot simply read the passages describing the feasts of Israel and know that they are prophecies. God could have chosen not to fulfill them at all and you would not be here objecting to Christianity based on unfufilled prophecy. The reason that is true is because the feast were not explicitly given as prophecy. When Christ did the things He did He wasn't fulfilling prophecy so much as He was fulfilling Scripture, which is similar but not exactly the same thing.

Resting in Him,
Clete
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Do you know what the subject of the Bible is about? Do you know why God instituted the feasts at all?
 
SOTK

SOTK

New member
Knight said:
SOTK, I am responding to you at the risk that you wont respond back to my response just like the last time in this tread.

So please, as a friend, if I take the the time to respond please give me the courtesy of comtemplating my response and responding back OK?

No Open Theist that I know of thinks that freewill means UNLIMITED freewill. You are creating a strawman argument about how you percieve open theism that simply isn't a part of open theism.

Open theists would acknowledge that God spends a great deal of time attempting to conform, influence, manipulate our will to His will. In fact, I have recently dedicated an entire thread to this very point.

So, it's very likely that you simply do not fully understand open theism which is fine, no one is twisting your arm, you can believe whatever you want to believe and I will love ya just the same. OK? :up:

But at least give yourself the chance to mentally explore the concept in a fair and reasonable way.

Deal?
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Deal. :up:

Knight, sorry, what post did I miss responding to?
 
N

nancy

BANNED
Banned
No, Clete you are talking about predeterminism not predestination.

Knight, I've hardly converted to open theism in any sense.
 
drbrumley

drbrumley

Well-known member
Agape4Robin said:
Do you know what the subject of the Bible is about? Do you know why God instituted the feasts at all?
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Yes, the bible has a PLOT, do you know what it is? The feasts were symbols of the coming Messiah. Whats your point?
 
drbrumley

drbrumley

Well-known member
SOTK, Please remove your blantant offensive signature. It is neither true of Clete or any OV'er on this board. Thanks.
 
Agape4Robin

Agape4Robin

Member
drbrumley said:
Yes, the bible has a PLOT, do you know what it is? The feasts were symbols of the coming Messiah. Whats your point?
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I believe I was asking Clete, but yes, I know what the "plot" is......do you?
 
J

Johnny

New member
This is a non-sequitor. The measurement of time is itself an event. As long as God exists there will be events. If nothing else, God's existence itself would be an event so your question is a contradiction.
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What are you talking about? That's not a nonsequitor. I didn't reach any conclusions or state any premises. I was responding to someone's argument that if all events ceased, time would be the measurement from when they ceased. Stop throwing around terms.

Because it is irrational for one to go to a place that does not exist.
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Wow, what a killer argument. The funny thing about it is that it passed for brilliance to Knight. Nice. If you accept the premise, then the conclusion is entirely obvious. But you failed to prove your premise. You just stated it like everyone agrees. That's the equivalent of me saying "Belief in God is irrational." to which you say "Why?" and I say "Because God doesn't exist. Thus belief in God is irrational". It's an absolutely paltry argument that crumbles upon even a cursory examination. That may pass as brilliance here, but to the rest of the world, it means nothing.

The question of time travel to the past is largely philosophical, but there is a scientific aspect to it. Contrary to what you may believe, neither philosophy or science has not ruled out time travel to the past. In fact, travel to the past and future is well within the confines of science (and mathematics). Granted, there have been and continue to be many debates about the subject, but there is not a unified conclusion that has been reached. So when you come in here and make sweeping statements like "Time travel to the past is impossible", you carry neither the unified conclusion of philosophers and scientists. How am I supposed to take you seriously when you construct arguments like the above?

Now, let me address the notion of travelling to the future. Assume I build a time machine. I step in it, bring my watch, and in 1 minute it takes me 10 years into the future. Impossible? Not quite. Assume I'm in a space ship whirling through space at near the speed of light. I count one minute on my watch, and then I stop my ship and I find that 10 years have passed on earth. Was God in m space ship AND on earth? Time was passing at different speeds for both of us. Can God exist in a place where time is passing at two different speeds?
 
Clete

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
Agape4Robin said:
Jesus Christ
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This is your answer to "What is the plot of the Bible?"

:darwinsm:

Give me a break will ya? You're killing me here.

It doesn't even matter. Jesus Christ could have fulfilled the feast in dozens of ways that would have been as perfectly valid as the ways in which He did in fact fulfill them.
 
Agape4Robin

Agape4Robin

Member
Clete said:
This is your answer to "What is the plot of the Bible?"

:darwinsm:

Give me a break will ya? You're killing me here.

It doesn't even matter. Jesus Christ could have fulfilled the feast in dozens of ways that would have been as perfectly valid as the ways in which He did in fact fulfill them.
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Oh, please....tell me what the plot is.................
 
G

godrulz

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
Perception of time and the impossibility of humans going near the speed of light is a weak defense for time travel.
 
G

godrulz

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
godrulz said:
One can measure time in numerous ways. Time is not space or a place to visit. You are thinking of Michael J. Fox in "Back to the Future". The past is fixed. It has already happened. It is a mere memory. It is unchangeable and unvisitable in reality. One can recall it, recreate it, ponder it, but one cannot go there and visit it. It is not that He is bound in time, since time is not a little line or cubby hole. It is merely the concept of duration/succession/sequence. The past, present, and future are distinguishable by God. He is not in an 'eternal now' moment. If He was, creation, incarnation, Second Coming actually happen simultaneously. This is nonsense. His revelation was progressive over years, not timelessness (whatever that means).

Likewise, the future is not a place to visit. It is not there yet. It is merely potential in the mind of God. This is why prayer and choices of free moral agents can change the future. The future is not fixed (except what God has settled by His intention to eventually bring it to pass e.g. First/Second Coming). God does not need to go into the future. He can project all possible futures and is able to deal with any contingencies because He is creatively omnicompetent. He can 'go' to the future in His mind, but He does not actually know or experience it since it is not there in reality. Do not confuse space with time. Only the present is actual.

This common sense view of time is how we all live and function. It does not contradict Scripture, but does contradict uncritically accepted philosophical views of what eternity must mean. Endless duration is a superior understanding of eternity vs timelessness (see research on A and B theories of time).

If I shoot my cat in the head, can I go back into the past and change this event? Can God?

If the Superbowl in 20 years is not played yet, can I see or know it without causing it? Can God? Can we blur the distinction between past, present, and future and make any sense of it? You wrongly assume that the past or future is identical to the present. They are not (this is self-evident in the Bible and real life).
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Johnny: Is any of this plausible...you may have missed this previous post?
 
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