Does God know the future?

[intro2faith]

Whats idiotic Intro is when presented with the biblical evidence, you determinists just pass it off as it don't exist. Thats what is idiotic.Like what Freak has mentioned, millions dont believe on open theism, so it must be rejected. What a total assine statement to make. You think?

All I was pointing out was that Clete was not acting the way that I think Christ would. There have been others too, that have acted that way. Including myself. At that instance I was just pointing out the error in Cletes statements. No need to get snippy.

 

[Clete]

First of all, :SOTK:, it's nice to see you back in action, but in Clete's defense, what you have said is untrue. He believes Calvinists are Christians (so do I), perhaps even plenty of Catholics since one of their beliefs is in the death & resurrection of Christ.



No, OVers like myself understand truth & logic and simply want to rightly divide the Word with our brothers & sisters in Christ. Just because we differ on our theological views does not mean that we are enemies.


Do you believe this in your heart & mind........

Romans 10:9-10

that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

This is the Gospel in a nutshell. Agree or disagree?

Thank you! :thumb:

 

[Mr. Coffee]

Whats idiotic Intro is when presented with the biblical evidence, you determinists just pass it off as it don't exist. Thats what is idiotic.Like what Freak has mentioned, millions dont believe on open theism, so it must be rejected. What a total assine statement to make. You think?

Hey, Doc, while we're on the subject of idiotic:

For instance, Job was completely ignorant of the conflict between God and Satan.

Everything Satan did was commanded by God. Read Job.

 

[intro2faith]

Then tell your poddle Freak to lay off the heresey comments.

So far I haven't seen Freak act in the ways Clete has. If I do, I just may point it out. But I haven't so far. Please feel free to point out to me if I'm being blatantly un-Christlike

 

[drbrumley]

Hey, Doc, while we're on the subject of idiotic:
Everything Satan did was commanded by God. Read Job.

Hey coffeebean, so your telleing me with this quip of yours is that Job knew the conflict between Satan and God? How bout you do me a favor, go back to school and learn reading comprehension that get back to me.

 

[drbrumley]

So far I haven't seen Freak act in the ways Clete has. If I do, I just may point it out. But I haven't so far. Please feel free to point out to me if I'm being blatantly un-Christlike

Freak has said we preach heresey. Obviously you agree since you have not judged him as you do us.

 

[intro2faith]

Hey coffeebean, so your telleing me with this quip of yours is that Job knew the conflict between Satan and God? How bout you do me a favor, go back to school and learn reading comprehension that get back to me.

Huh, seems like sarcasm runs rampant here....

 

[intro2faith]

Freak has said we preach heresey. Obviously you agree since you have not judged him as you do us.

Obviously you make too many assumptions I don't know why Freak said that you preach heresay. Why did he? Even if he had a horrible reason for saying that, he wasn't calling you names and putting you down the way you have been to him.

 

[SOTK]

Seems he could find a better way to come across as a loving Christian who genuinely cares about you. It seems an awful lot like he just wants to prove people wrong, not bring them the truth. Course...that's just the way it seems to me....

Exactly my point with what I posted.

There's no denying that Clete is intelligent, is passionate about what he believes, and puts together well thought out posts. What turns me off to debating with him is his inflated ego and how he can come across in his posts.

It's a shame, really, because he can have worthwhile things to say. I would much rather discuss this subject with other OVers. Anything intelligent Clete might offer is lost with what I consider to be a bad attitude. Why would I want to discuss anything with someone who is going to treat me they way he treats people? Not only that, it would be a waste of time to post anything because he has already dismissed anything I have to say. Afterall, I am a heretic, correct Clete?

 

[Clete]

It may or may not be untrue. I do think, Clete, especially, goes out of his way to label Calvinists as heretical, ignorant, blasphemous, etc. Do you really think it would be a giant leap for him to say "we're going to hell".

It would be a big stretch because it would be BOTH unbiblical and irrational. Cancepts I'm not sure you're familar with at all.

Personally, I feel Clete has done nothing to show me that he feels that I am a brother in Christ.

Oh! And you have me? Is that it? Is this the way you show people that you're their brother in Christ? Saved or unsaved, you're a jackass and deserve neither my respect nor my freindship.

Really? So labeling a brother with a different theological belief as a heretic or blasphemer doesn't mean we aren't enemies? Could have fooled me!

This is a debate forum you blithering hypocrite! If we were sitting down to dinner I'm sure my attitude would be quite different but we aren't. We are here to debate our theology and I happen to be quite convinced that yours is an insult to God whom I consider to be both Father and Friend. So when it comes to debating theology we are not on the same side. Now if we were on a thread debating the diety of Christ, I'm sure we would find all the common ground in the world but not here. Here, you insult the living God with every key stroke you make and then pretend to be qualified to judge my motives behind getting angry. You're pathetic.

Look, I feel Calvinism makes sense to me.

Who cares what you feel. Does it make sense or doesn't it? It's not a matter for the feelings but for the intellect. Does you theology make sense or is it irrational? Or doesn't it matter to you?

I also see it as pretty logical however much you might disagree.

Again, it makes no difference how "you see it". It is either logical or it isn't. Your oppinion is irrelevent.

You don't see me losing my temper and calling you an ignorant heretic.

No what I see you doing is judging a brother in Christ's motives based on next to nothing but mere appearance in direct opposition to the command of Christ.

Agree.

Glad to here it. I never would have guessed that you would answer otherwise. Although if I had, I suppose that, according to you, God would had to predestine me to think that wouldn't He? You're hypocricy ooozes from every word you speak.

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[Nineveh]

SOTK: Why not offer something a bit more substantial to debate with Clete than things like, "You might as well just get it over with and label us non-believers and that we're going to hell."?

intro: Why not offer somethig to the topic other than your judgements?

 

[drbrumley]

AS Christians and believers in the Lord Jesus and God, our faith is WHO we ARE, we live it out daily. To be branded as teaching heresey is a direct attack upon who we are. I have yet to hear an OVer say you guys preach heresey. We believe you guys are not thinking things thru to the conclusion. Which is a far cry from saying you guys are heretics.

 

[Clete]

Woah, time out about Clete--

I know from our time together on a really focused debate, when we disagreed about a lot of things, that there is a limit to how far he'll go. Really people, there were positive reps and brotherly PMs going back and forth during our 1on1. I always felt that he seperated me from my doctrine.

I'm not always successful but this has always been my goal. I'm here to debate theology not to attack people personally. Well, unless they're criminals but that's a different issue.

Thanks for the kind words. I've always found you to be intellectually honest and at least with me you've not been afraid to engage the debate. That's what this place is all about.

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[SOTK]

AS Christians and believers in the Lord Jesus and God, our faith is WHO we ARE, we live it out daily. To be branded as teaching heresey is a direct attack upon who we are. I have yet to hear an OVer say you guys preach heresey. We believe you guys are not thinking things thru to the conclusion. Which is a far cry from saying you guys are heretics.

:noway:

You have got to be kidding me? Go back and read the majority of Clete's posts!!!

drbrumley, what you said above my be generally true of yourself. In fact, I think what you said is true of Nineveh, Turbo, Godrulz, God is Truth, Knight (sometimes), and a few others.

Clete's a jerk!

 

[SOTK]

SOTK: Why not offer something a bit more substantial to debate with Clete than things like, "You might as well just get it over with and label us non-believers and that we're going to hell."?

intro: Why not offer somethig to the topic other than your judgements?

I have and will continue to do so with many. I will not with Clete until he changes his attitude. Period!

I completely exposed his attitude tonight. Looks like I "judged" rightly.

 

[drbrumley]

:noway:

You have got to be kidding me? Go back and read the majority of Clete's posts!!!

drbrumley, what you said above my be generally true of yourself. In fact, I think what you said is true of Nineveh, Turbo, Godrulz, God is Truth, Knight (sometimes), and a few others.

Clete's a jerk!

I will tell you what I see in Clete's posts

I see him taking the time to answer every single proof text you guys have to offer and explain in detail. Then I see you determinsts utterly refuse to even consider the points raised. And then blast him and us to kingdom come because you guys want to hold on the philosophy you guys grew up with. That sir is disheartening.

 

[drbrumley]

And SOTK, then I EXPECT you to judge rightly ZMAN for his attack today.

 

[intro2faith]

And SOTK, then I EXPECT you to judge rightly ZMAN for his attack today.

Like children on a playground :nono: If you expect SOTK to rightly judge Z Man, then why don't you expect yourself to rightly judge Clete? Eh?

I'm just trying to be a friendly mediator here. Haha...like on the playground when I was a kid. I was a "peer mediator". Made sure kids didn't get too rough and fight. Pretty much the same thing here! :chuckle:

 

[Nineveh]

I have and will continue to do so with many. I will not with Clete until he changes his attitude. Period!

Then why not offer something of substance on this thread to someone?

The last few pages of thread are worthless.

 

[Clete]

Afterall, I am a heretic, correct Clete?

Actually, jackass is the word I would use. Stuborn, foolish, hypocritical would all do in a pinch. But I thought all of this and more about Jim Hilston for over a year and I still debated him unitil he finally convinced me that some important portions of what he was saying was very much right and that I had not been. He and I continue to have discussions to this day because even though we disagree terribly on many important issues, we repect the fact that we are both intellectually honest. If I am able to present to him an argument that he sees and understands he will not simply ignore my argument. If he agrees with it he will say so, if he disagrees he will say why and we will proceed. As a result, I get more intelectual stimulation and even spiritual edification from one 15 minute conversation with him than I gotten in a months time debating with several people on this website. All without have to agree with hardly a word he says!

If you stop being a jackass, I can't guarantee that you and I could have many productive conversations. But until you decide to give me at least enough respect to keep your idiotic thoughts about my personal motivations to yourself then I don't frankly care whether that happens or not.

Resting in Him,
Clete