Does God know the future?

[Nathon Detroit]

I do not believe in limited atonement.

Yet, I do believe in divine election...

:dizzy:

 

[godrulz]

No. God is not willing for any to perish. He did not create hell for humans. We have free will to choose Christ. Those who reject Christ enter eternal hell (God did not elect people to go to hell).

Did I not just say that? Godrulz, get off your high horse & actually read what I posted, ok?

You were inconsistent/contradictory in some of your post.

 

[drbrumley]

Man, talk about a LOADED question. :thumb:

 

[Freak]

Great point - so why then would God pre-choose certain individuals and leave others unchosen with no hope for atonement?

I believe the love of Jesus extends to all. I fully embrace unlimited atonement--Christ died for all.

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

The world is everyone!!!

God loves all but not all love God!!

Those who reject His Son, Jesus, will suffer in eternity in hell.

God elected those who believed in Him!

Answer me this.....

Since you believeDo the individuals that were not pre-chosen have hope for atonement?[/b]

God gives humanity free will. Some choose and some reject. Those who received Him were elected for God knew they would!

 

[godrulz]

God loves the world (John 3:16). Everyone will have an opportunity to choose Jesus (free will). Yes, there is divine election, though, I believe, it is misunderstood, for it is a divine concept that finite man is incapable of fully understanding, in light of the truth of free will. The Scriptures teach free will & divine election. I understand both of these truths.

The apostle Peter tells us:

The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

You correctly believe in an unlimited atonement, but incorrectly think election is unconditional. TULIP is at least internally consistent. You are trying to piece together incompatible ideas, unless we are misunderstanding your view of election. Perhaps your election is based on foreknowledge?

Do you believe that God elected Freak for salvation from eternity past? If so, was it theoretically possible that you would never believe (as an individual) and go to hell?

 

[godrulz]

:dizzy:

He needs to define what his version of election is.

 

[Freak]

You were inconsistent/contradictory in some of your post.

Godrulz, the truths of Scripture appear at times inconsistent to our finite minds but in God's mind they are not!

 

[Freak]

. Perhaps your election is based on foreknowledge?

Give the man a prize!

 

[Freak]

:dizzy:

Election is based on God's complete & perfect foreknowledge!

 

[drbrumley]

Godrulz, the truths of Scripture appear at times inconsistent to our finite minds but in God's mind they are not!

The Scriptures NEVER appear inconsistent. Your understanding of the topic is though.

 

[godrulz]

I believe the love of Jesus extends to all. I fully embrace unlimited atonement--Christ died for all.

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

The world is everyone!!!

God loves all but not all love God!!

Those who reject His Son, Jesus, will suffer in eternity in hell.

God elected those who believed in Him!

God gives humanity free will. Some choose and some reject. Those who received Him were elected for God knew they would!

The key is when were they elected and known to be such? We they elected from all eternity because God knew they would believe (Arminian simple foreknowledge) or elected from all eternity based on decree/predestination (Calvinism)?

The truths about corporate vs individual election (God predestines that all who believe will become part of the elect...this does not happen in eternity past, but as the choices are made to freely receive or reject His grace) and the nature of the open future (cannot be exhaustively foreknown if contingencies/freedom are genuine) clear up the inconsistencies/confusion with his views.

 

[godrulz]

Godrulz, the truths of Scripture appear at times inconsistent to our finite minds but in God's mind they are not!

It is more likely that our view is incoherent and incorrect. There is a clear resolution to the tension (sovereignty vs free will, etc.), but you do not seem open to it since you wrongly think it compromises Scripture or God's attributes.

 

[Freak]

The Scriptures NEVER appear inconsistent.

To man, at times, yes. But God's Word is pure, inerrant.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Freak you stated . . .

God has given us free will and yet has chosen us, as individuals.

Again I ask . . .

Do the individuals that were not pre-chosen have hope for atonement?

Or maybe you would like to retract some of your comments?

 

[godrulz]

Election is based on God's complete & perfect foreknowledge!

You get the booby price for an incorrect assumption. Simple foreknowledge of future free will contingencies is indefensible (not just hard for us to see...it is illogical).

 

[godrulz]

To man, at times, yes. But God's Word is pure, inerrant.

Apparent contradictions are alleged, not real. If our views are incoherent, we need to change them, not just dismiss them as not understandable because we are finite. We do not know truths exhaustively, but what we do know should be truthful and coherent. e.g. we do not fully understand the Trinity, but we what we do know is reasonable and correct (one God with 3 personal distinctions...we do not know all the details of how this is true).

 

[Freak]

The key is when were they elected and known to be such?

Those in Christ were elected by God. Yet, it was our free will that places us in Christ!

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Those in Christ were elected by God. Yet, it was our free will that places us in Christ!

That is the open view (corporate election).

But you stated otherwise.

You stated . . .

God has given us free will and yet has chosen us, as individuals.

Again I ask . . .

Do the individuals that were not pre-chosen have hope for atonement?

Or maybe you would like to retract some of your comments?

 

[Freak]

Freak you stated . . .Again I ask . . .

Do the individuals that were not pre-chosen have hope for atonement?

The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

...who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by his blood: Grace and peace be yours in abundance.

 

[nancy]

You guys, Eph. is just saying that life for us on Earth as Christians is partially the glorified state by being in union with God by accepting Christ and then becoming the body of Christ, the church.