Does God know the future?

[Nathon Detroit]

God is not evil. We are.

Unlike us, God takes responsibility for His creation.

Here are some Bible quotes, and remember we are to take the Bible at face value, like you said:

"I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace [good], and create evil: I the Lord do all these things"

" ... an experience of evil hath God given to the sons of man to humble him thereby"

"Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good?"

" ... I have created the waster to destroy."

"The LORD hath made all things for Himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil."

" ... Thus said the Lord; Behold, I frame evil against you, and devise a device against you ... "

"What? shall we receive good at the hand of God and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips."

Yikes!

Your all over the map! How does a person become as clueless as you are?

God brings "evil" to the wicked. He smites them. It's God's way of saying "look what I can do to the wicked and no one can stop me". God often judges the wicked and brings wrath to them, which is completely different from masterminding the evil actions that He would eventually punish.

And . . God did in fact create all things that were created therefore He did create the humans that used their freewill for evil.

Therefore none of these verses contradict God's righteous character as you assert. God is responsible for all that is good, yet man and Satan are responsible for all that is wicked.

Claiming that God is an evil mastermind is blasphemous in the most offensive way.

That's kinda arrogant. Since when does God need anyone? God can defend Himself just fine.

Did you read the verse? God said.... "Let no one say" I was simply following His command.

 

[godrulz]

Time in according to physicist is not just some mere abstract idea floating in our heads, it is something with physical properties - it is a dimension.

The Genesis account is allegory, but it does provide clues as to the nature of Creation, especially when god brings light into being, thats the foundation of matter. God doesn't need to be created because God is not a creature nor is God a thing.

Theoretical physics is speculative. The simple Hebraic view is that eternity is everlasting duration, not timelessness. Time is not a thing. It is more fundamental than space.

If Genesis is not literal, than either is the truth of man's salvation through Christ in the Gospels. Genesis is the foundation. It does not give scientific details, but it has chronology and is not figurative. God is uncreated Creator. Love, thought, time, etc. are eternal within the Godhead.

 

[godrulz]

No, Orthodox Christian, not many of those around here.

RightGlory is Orthodox. Are you Greek Orthodox?

 

[godrulz]

Clete, this is the last time I will answer this specific take on the argument.

You have the free will to take your car or not. Just because God observes what choice you pick does not take away your free will decision, he is just observing your free will decision.

Take an example if I watch a documentary on WWII. Just because I know the outcome of the war does not mean that the people in the documentary did not have a free will choice in what they did at that time. I'm just watching what occured.

In this analogy, you are not talking about the future. You are talking about the knowable fixed past. Our future is not written yet and is unknowable as a certainty. If the year 2010 has literally happened and is archived to be viewed in retrospect, your analogy might prove something. WW II is past. 2010 is not yet. Your analogy is flawed. The future is not prerecorded because it has not happened yet.

 

[godrulz]

Clete, here is a better example.

According to Einstein's theories, if I was travelling at the speed of light, I could observe events that are not moving at the speed of light at an accelerated rate and see the future of those events relative to my frame of reference.

I would see people quickly making whatever free will choices they can, but I don't stop them from having free will just because I observe them from my realtive position.

Relativity is not parallel to normal reality. It is theoretical and not applicable to normal history. You are grasping at straws. Einstein had theories, not facts in every area. He was still looking for a unifying theory. The simple, common sense view is that the past is fixed, the future is not yet, and the present is now/reality.

 

[godrulz]

I am an Orthodox Christian, Greek Orthodox Christian variety, we go way back to the 1st century Church, you know The Church, the real Church, the one established by Christ himself not Pope Linus, not Emperor Constantine or Martin Luther or John Calvin or Pat Robertson but the Church established by Christ.

Most denominations claim first century roots. Much of the Greek Orthodox church is nominal and dying today.

 

[godrulz]

I take it that most of you beleive that God's will is not sovereign. I beleive that everything that occurs is God's will and nothing can go against God's will.

Jesus came to oppose evil in the Gospels, not affirm it as God's will. The warfare model is more biblical than the meticulous blueprint model.

 

[kmoney]

Clete, and Knight since you seem to be posting again....hope everything is goin well with your house by the way.....

Does God have a specific plan for my life that was formulated eons before I ever existed? No, certainly not.

Ok, you don't believe that....
So does God form plans for your life as you live your life? As you live do you believe that God will have certain things he wants you to do? Or is it basically free and just do whatever you want and serve God in it?

note, by "whatever you want" I am clearly not including immoral things.....

Kevin

 

[Lion]

Does God know the future?

Yes and no. He knows what He will bring to pass, because He will MAKE those things happen.

He made Jesus be born, and nothing was going to stand in His way. In fact He even flooded the entire world, just so He could bring this to pass.

But, does He know for certain the actions of free will beings? Nope.

 

[novice]

Ok, you don't believe that....
So does God form plans for your life as you live your life? As you live do you believe that God will have certain things he wants you to do? Or is it basically free and just do whatever you want and serve God in it?

If you lean on Him and not own your own understandings He will help guide your path.

Yet conversely, if you do not lean on Him He will not guide your paths.

In other words, the Holy Spirit is here to help. Help us make good solid decisions, help us to be wise etc. Yet if we reject the Spirit we are not getting the guidance we could be getting.

Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding; 6 In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He shall direct your paths. 7 Do not be wise in your own eyes; Fear the LORD and depart from evil.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Ok, you don't believe that....
So does God form plans for your life as you live your life?

Uh . . . yeah . . . what novice said. :noid:

 

[kmoney]

If you lean on Him and not own your own understandings He will help guide your path.

Yet conversely, if you do not lean on Him He will not guide your paths.

In other words, the Holy Spirit is here to help. Help us make good solid decisions, help us to be wise etc. Yet if we reject the Spirit we are not getting the guidance we could be getting.

Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding; 6 In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He shall direct your paths. 7 Do not be wise in your own eyes; Fear the LORD and depart from evil.

Yeah, I already agree with all that, but that wasn't exactly what I was getting at....

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Yeah, I already agree with all that, but that wasn't exactly what I was getting at....

Oh.

 

[Quasar1011]

God knows everything knowable that He chooses to know. The future actions of freewill agents is by definition unknowable.

I agreed with everything in your post, except the above statement. In one single timeline, that of this Earth on which we live, the statement could be true. But God is not bound by time. He operates on at least 2 timelines, and perhaps an infinite number of them.

If time is scientifically defined as "that dimension in which cause and effect phenomena operate", then we know God has at least one more timeline. Creation was an effect; God was the cause. The cause emanated in a different (2nd, though really first) dimension of time. Therefore, God has the advantage of not being bound to time the way we are.

Earth was given a timeline that operates in such a way, that time always moves forward. We know this from common sense. We do not know whether or not God's additional timeline(s) is bound in the same way. However, since Earth's timeline had a definite beginning, could it be that it also has an appointed end?

Revelation 10:6 KJV
"And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:"

Certainly, in eternity future, there will be causes and effects. But this passage could mean that time will no longer function according to the physical laws of the universe, regulated by the sun, moon, and Earth's rotation. In fact, there will be no need for such measures, at least to those who are redeemed. Why? Because in the new heavens and earth, the thought will be the act!

I say this, because that is how Jesus operated after His resurrection. He desired to be with His disciples, and it was so; even though He countermanded the physical laws of the universe, by suddenly appearing inside a locked room! Jesus even told us to start training for eternity now, by teaching us such things as: unwarranted anger against a brother is murder; lust after a woman one is not married to is adultery; etc. So if we can control our thoughts in this life, we will be better prepared for the next life, when we will have the mind of Christ, and wield great power with it!

Lastly, we are told that yes, God does know the future, but we cannot understand how He does so:

Ecclesiastes 3:11
He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has also set eternity in the hearts of men; yet they cannot fathom what God has done from beginning to end.

Isaiah 46:10
I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say: My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please.

 

[Delmar]

No, you are the one bringing this up and claiming the illogical. It is your responsibility to back it up.




But that's just it. You have to prove that time is something that one would have to "subject" themselves to as if it were a constraining thing rather than a simple concept to express the the measure and passing of events, proceedings, occurances, etc.

Like we are claiming time has authority over God or something

 

[Delmar]

Lets say someone actually has a time machine and travels to the year 2025 and lets say they witness the Kansas City Royals win the World Series (GO ROYALS!!!)...then the person travels back to the present where the Royals are 24-41 (HORRIBLE!). That person knows what will happen in the year 2025. It isn't just a prophesy; they KNOW what will happen. Does that mean the events of 2025 will occur without free will? No, at least I don't think so. Now, my time machine example isn't EXACTLY how God would know the future, but do you at least kinda see where I'm coming from? haha......

You do understand that those of us who believe that God is not “outside of time” also consider time travel a logical absurdity, don't you?

 

[kmoney]

You do understand that those of us who believe that God is not “outside of time” also consider time travel a logical absurdity, don't you?

What!?! Time travel is absurd? You MUST be joking. And I've wasted all those hours on that stupid time machine....

 

[Delmar]

I agreed with everything in your post, except the above statement. In one single timeline, that of this Earth on which we live, the statement could be true. But God is not bound by time. He operates on at least 2 timelines, and perhaps an infinite number of them....

Why do you assume that God's time line does not, since creation, run concurrently with Earth's?

 

[Delmar]

What!?! Time travel is absurd? You MUST be joking. And I've wasted all those hours on that stupid time machine....

I feel your pain.

 

[godrulz]

What!?! Time travel is absurd? You MUST be joking. And I've wasted all those hours on that stupid time machine....

"Back to the Future" is science fiction, not Scripture.