Does fulfilled mean abolished? No.

[Jacob]

For someone who says:

And when asked questions respond such:

I wonder if this is really true:

Okay

How can I help you?

 

[CabinetMaker]

Antinomians love to confuse the real issues with strawman arguments like the one that "it is utterly and completely impossible to comply with all 613 laws of the Mosaic Covenant".

It is true that you can't buy salvation through keeping of the Law.

However, Antinomians always reject the real issue:

Matthew 6:33 33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.​

The Antinomian rejection of of the Law God gave to Moses means that they are also rejecting God's standard of righteousness, and are also rejecting God's kingdom.

And GO completely misses the point of my post.

 

[genuineoriginal]

And GO completely misses the point of my post.

You completely missed the entire point of God giving His Law to His people.

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

I do not know that anyone goes to Heaven when they die.

I you truly believe the scriptures from Mathew through to Revelation you would know that you were most definitely going to Heaven, therefore you are being hypocritical when you say you do believe them because if you believed the verses below then you would know you are going to heaven:

Matthew 23:9
And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.

John 14:6
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Romans 10:9
If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

 

[lifeisgood]

Okay

How can I help you?

You can't.

 

[Danoh]

Yep and the only way to get to the Father who is in Heaven is through believing Jesus is your saviour:

John 14:6
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Romans 10:9
If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

I often skip these kinds of things as addressing them ends up rather long.

At the same time, I do not subscribe to the sound byte method - too much tends to be lost in translation not only in between sound bytes, but in between their endless interruptions by all sorts of other views.

Anyway, excuse the following long wind on my part :chuckle:

Who is it in Romans 2 and 3 and Romans 9-11 that is being rightly accused of having rejected that Jesus had been their Prophesied Christ and thus, their Lord?

And who is it that is being rightly accused of in those chapters as having then added to their rejection of Him, their further rejection of the proof presented to them by the Twelve, together with their assertion that He had risen and that it was He Who had shed forth the signs and wonders He was manifesting in His followers before Israel's very eyes?

The Nation Israel.

This is why that passage in Romans 10 does not mention His having died for sins, for example.

Because the issue being addressed in those chapters is the issue of Unbelieving Israel's failure to have kept the Law and the Prophets in their having rejected that Jesus had been the Christ their Law and their Prophets did say should come.

Although they had all been of "the nation of Israel" they had not been of that "nation of God" with their nation - their Believing Remnant - "the Israel of God."

At the same time, Paul is asserting that God is not through with that nation.

Or as Paul puts that...

Romans 3:1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? 3:2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

Romans 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

In short, Paul is lamenting and relating and instructing in the issue of what has happened to this ever amazing nation of his, not only once more, but that this time around; THEIR Christ: the Christ OF ISRAEL, was now not only out among - God forbid! - those Unclean Gentiles! - but also, not only not through a redeemed Israel first, as had been Prophesied - "rather, through their fall."

Again, he is talking about what Israel had been expected to believe - not only that Jesus had been their Prophesied Christ, but that His Resurrection had proven He had been/was/is - their Prophesied Lord.

John 1:49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.

John 9:35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God? 9:36 He answered and said, Who is he, Lord, that I might believe on him? 9:37 And Jesus said unto him, Thou hast both seen him, and it is he that talketh with thee. 9:38 And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him.

John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God.

Acts 3:12 And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk? 3:13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go. 3:14 But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you; 3:15 And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses. 3:16 And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all. 3:17 And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers. 3:18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled. 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. 3:22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. 3:23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people. 3:24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days. 3:25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed. 3:26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

If you want the gospel of our salvation in Romans THIS SIDE of what "is happened to Israel" - head on over to the end of Romans 3 and into Romans 4 thru Romans 6.

There you have much more than His having been Israel's Prophesied Lord and Christ.

There you have the added distinction of how that, based on the end of Romans 3 and into Romans 4...

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Why?

Based on the added distinction of His having died for YOUR sins...

5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 5:7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. 5:11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

Then, if you continue on into Romans 6, you read of the added distinction of His having risen from the dead, and you with Him in HIS newness of life WITH Him.

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

There is our gospel, this side of Israel's fall and temporary setting aside.

Both its fact, and its enablement, which Paul continues on the theme of in Romans 7 and 8 also, before pausing to answer the question "well wait a minute, what about the nation Israel?" in chapters 9-11 - THEIR 911.

In other words, when dealing with a Jew, Paul first addressed the issue that Jesus had indeed been THEIR Prophesied Christ and Lord: the Son of God.

And he is relating how all that had played out during his ministry to that nation.

You'll note in the following, that Paul's ministry to his nation is basically at its end by the time he writes Romans.

Romans 15:19 Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ. 15:20 Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man's foundation: 15:21 But as it is written, To whom he was not spoken of, they shall see: and they that have not heard shall understand. 15:22 For which cause also I have been much hindered from coming to you. 15:23 But now having no more place in these parts, and having a great desire these many years to come unto you; 15:24 Whensoever I take my journey into Spain, I will come to you: for I trust to see you in my journey, and to be brought on my way thitherward by you, if first I be somewhat filled with your company. 15:25 But now I go unto Jerusalem to minister unto the saints. 15:26 For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem. 15:27 It hath pleased them verily; and their debtors they are. For if the Gentiles have been made partakers of their spiritual things, their duty is also to minister unto them in carnal things. 15:28 When therefore I have performed this, and have sealed to them this fruit, I will come by you into Spain. 15:29 And I am sure that, when I come unto you, I shall come in the fulness of the blessing of the gospel of Christ.

While, back when he had been dealing with the lost within his nation, his approach had been proving first, that Jesus had been their Christ.

Even now, when dealing with Jews, one has to address that first.

Acts 17:1 Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews: 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures, 17:3 Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.

Nevertheless, Romans 14:5 towards ya, in memory of Romans 5:6-8.

 

[meshak]

squeaky has an excellent thread about fulfilling the law.

it is here:

http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?127573-Jesus-Fulfilled-The-Law-And-Shows-Us-How-To

 

[Jacob]

I you truly believe the scriptures from Mathew through to Revelation you would know that you were most definitely going to Heaven, therefore you are being hypocritical when you say you do believe them because if you believed the verses below then you would know you are going to heaven:

Matthew 23:9
And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.

John 14:6
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Romans 10:9
If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Incorrect. Did Jesus ascend to the right hand of the Father? Yes. Did He go to heaven? Will anyone else go to heaven? Or, will anyone go to heaven?

 

[Jacob]

You can't.

Okay by what you say.

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

I often skip these kinds of things as addressing them ends up rather long.

Well you didn't this time...

At the same time, I do not subscribe to the sound byte method - too much tends to be lost in translation not only in between sound bytes, but in between their endless interruptions by all sorts of other views.

And they say less is more.

Anyway, excuse the following long wind on my part :chuckle:

Who is it in Romans 2 and 3 and Romans 9-11 that is being rightly accused of having rejected that Jesus had been their Prophesied Christ and thus, their Lord?

And who is it that is being rightly accused of in those chapters as having then added to their rejection of Him, their further rejection of the proof presented to them by the Twelve, together with their assertion that He had risen and that it was He Who had shed forth the signs and wonders He was manifesting in His followers before Israel's very eyes?

The Nation Israel.

This is why that passage in Romans 10 does not mention His having died for sins, for example.

Because the issue being addressed in those chapters is the issue of Unbelieving Israel's failure to have kept the Law and the Prophets in their having rejected that Jesus had been the Christ their Law and their Prophets did say should come.

Although they had all been of "the nation of Israel" they had not been of that "nation of God" with their nation - their Believing Remnant - "the Israel of God."

At the same time, Paul is asserting that God is not through with that nation.

Or as Paul puts that...

Romans 3:1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? 3:2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

Romans 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

In short, Paul is lamenting and relating and instructing in the issue of what has happened to this ever amazing nation of his, not only once more, but that this time around; THEIR Christ: the Christ OF ISRAEL, was now not only out among - God forbid! - those Unclean Gentiles! - but also, not only not through a redeemed Israel first, as had been Prophesied - "rather, through their fall."

Again, he is talking about what Israel had been expected to believe - not only that Jesus had been their Prophesied Christ, but that His Resurrection had proven He had been/was/is - their Prophesied Lord.

John 1:49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.

John 9:35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God? 9:36 He answered and said, Who is he, Lord, that I might believe on him? 9:37 And Jesus said unto him, Thou hast both seen him, and it is he that talketh with thee. 9:38 And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him.

John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God.

Acts 3:12 And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk? 3:13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go. 3:14 But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you; 3:15 And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses. 3:16 And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all. 3:17 And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers. 3:18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled. 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. 3:22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. 3:23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people. 3:24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days. 3:25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed. 3:26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

If you want the gospel of our salvation in Romans THIS SIDE of what "is happened to Israel" - head on over to the end of Romans 3 and into Romans 4 thru Romans 6.

There you have much more than His having been Israel's Prophesied Lord and Christ.

There you have the added distinction of how that, based on the end of Romans 3 and into Romans 4...

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Why?

Based on the added distinction of His having died for YOUR sins...

5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 5:7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. 5:11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

Then, if you continue on into Romans 6, you read of the added distinction of His having risen from the dead, and you with Him in HIS newness of life WITH Him.

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

There is our gospel, this side of Israel's fall and temporary setting aside.

Both its fact, and its enablement, which Paul continues on the theme of in Romans 7 and 8 also, before pausing to answer the question "well wait a minute, what about the nation Israel?" in chapters 9-11 - THEIR 911.

In other words, when dealing with a Jew, Paul first addressed the issue that Jesus had indeed been THEIR Prophesied Christ and Lord: the Son of God.

And he is relating how all that had played out during his ministry to that nation.

You'll note in the following, that Paul's ministry to his nation is basically at its end by the time he writes Romans.

Romans 15:19 Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ. 15:20 Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man's foundation: 15:21 But as it is written, To whom he was not spoken of, they shall see: and they that have not heard shall understand. 15:22 For which cause also I have been much hindered from coming to you. 15:23 But now having no more place in these parts, and having a great desire these many years to come unto you; 15:24 Whensoever I take my journey into Spain, I will come to you: for I trust to see you in my journey, and to be brought on my way thitherward by you, if first I be somewhat filled with your company. 15:25 But now I go unto Jerusalem to minister unto the saints. 15:26 For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem. 15:27 It hath pleased them verily; and their debtors they are. For if the Gentiles have been made partakers of their spiritual things, their duty is also to minister unto them in carnal things. 15:28 When therefore I have performed this, and have sealed to them this fruit, I will come by you into Spain. 15:29 And I am sure that, when I come unto you, I shall come in the fulness of the blessing of the gospel of Christ.

While, back when he had been dealing with the lost within his nation, his approach had been proving first, that Jesus had been their Christ.

Even now, when dealing with Jews, one has to address that first.

Acts 17:1 Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews: 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures, 17:3 Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.

Nevertheless, Romans 14:5 towards ya, in memory of Romans 5:6-8.

I read all that but even I found it topsy turvy.

If you think you can do any better with Jacob then be my guest but he ain't going to understand all that lot, sorry.:cattyfan::blabla:

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

I often skip these kinds of things as addressing them ends up rather long.

Well you didn't this time...

At the same time, I do not subscribe to the sound byte method - too much tends to be lost in translation not only in between sound bytes, but in between their endless interruptions by all sorts of other views.

And they say less is more.

Anyway, excuse the following long wind on my part :chuckle:

Who is it in Romans 2 and 3 and Romans 9-11 that is being rightly accused of having rejected that Jesus had been their Prophesied Christ and thus, their Lord?

And who is it that is being rightly accused of in those chapters as having then added to their rejection of Him, their further rejection of the proof presented to them by the Twelve, together with their assertion that He had risen and that it was He Who had shed forth the signs and wonders He was manifesting in His followers before Israel's very eyes?

The Nation Israel.

This is why that passage in Romans 10 does not mention His having died for sins, for example.

Because the issue being addressed in those chapters is the issue of Unbelieving Israel's failure to have kept the Law and the Prophets in their having rejected that Jesus had been the Christ their Law and their Prophets did say should come.

Although they had all been of "the nation of Israel" they had not been of that "nation of God" with their nation - their Believing Remnant - "the Israel of God."

At the same time, Paul is asserting that God is not through with that nation.

Or as Paul puts that...

Romans 3:1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? 3:2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

Romans 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

In short, Paul is lamenting and relating and instructing in the issue of what has happened to this ever amazing nation of his, not only once more, but that this time around; THEIR Christ: the Christ OF ISRAEL, was now not only out among - God forbid! - those Unclean Gentiles! - but also, not only not through a redeemed Israel first, as had been Prophesied - "rather, through their fall."

Again, he is talking about what Israel had been expected to believe - not only that Jesus had been their Prophesied Christ, but that His Resurrection had proven He had been/was/is - their Prophesied Lord.

John 1:49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.

John 9:35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God? 9:36 He answered and said, Who is he, Lord, that I might believe on him? 9:37 And Jesus said unto him, Thou hast both seen him, and it is he that talketh with thee. 9:38 And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him.

John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God.

Acts 3:12 And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk? 3:13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go. 3:14 But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you; 3:15 And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses. 3:16 And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all. 3:17 And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers. 3:18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled. 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. 3:22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. 3:23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people. 3:24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days. 3:25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed. 3:26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

If you want the gospel of our salvation in Romans THIS SIDE of what "is happened to Israel" - head on over to the end of Romans 3 and into Romans 4 thru Romans 6.

There you have much more than His having been Israel's Prophesied Lord and Christ.

There you have the added distinction of how that, based on the end of Romans 3 and into Romans 4...

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Why?

Based on the added distinction of His having died for YOUR sins...

5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 5:7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. 5:11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

Then, if you continue on into Romans 6, you read of the added distinction of His having risen from the dead, and you with Him in HIS newness of life WITH Him.

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

There is our gospel, this side of Israel's fall and temporary setting aside.

Both its fact, and its enablement, which Paul continues on the theme of in Romans 7 and 8 also, before pausing to answer the question "well wait a minute, what about the nation Israel?" in chapters 9-11 - THEIR 911.

In other words, when dealing with a Jew, Paul first addressed the issue that Jesus had indeed been THEIR Prophesied Christ and Lord: the Son of God.

And he is relating how all that had played out during his ministry to that nation.

You'll note in the following, that Paul's ministry to his nation is basically at its end by the time he writes Romans.

Romans 15:19 Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ. 15:20 Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man's foundation: 15:21 But as it is written, To whom he was not spoken of, they shall see: and they that have not heard shall understand. 15:22 For which cause also I have been much hindered from coming to you. 15:23 But now having no more place in these parts, and having a great desire these many years to come unto you; 15:24 Whensoever I take my journey into Spain, I will come to you: for I trust to see you in my journey, and to be brought on my way thitherward by you, if first I be somewhat filled with your company. 15:25 But now I go unto Jerusalem to minister unto the saints. 15:26 For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem. 15:27 It hath pleased them verily; and their debtors they are. For if the Gentiles have been made partakers of their spiritual things, their duty is also to minister unto them in carnal things. 15:28 When therefore I have performed this, and have sealed to them this fruit, I will come by you into Spain. 15:29 And I am sure that, when I come unto you, I shall come in the fulness of the blessing of the gospel of Christ.

While, back when he had been dealing with the lost within his nation, his approach had been proving first, that Jesus had been their Christ.

Even now, when dealing with Jews, one has to address that first.

Acts 17:1 Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews: 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures, 17:3 Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.

Nevertheless, Romans 14:5 towards ya, in memory of Romans 5:6-8.

I read all that but even I found it topsy turvy.

If you think you can do any better with Jacob then be my guest but he ain't going to understand all that lot, sorry.:scripto:

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

Incorrect. Did Jesus ascend to the right hand of the Father? Yes. Did He go to heaven?

Yes

Will anyone else go to heaven?

Yes and they have been since 30AD for anyone who believes Jesus is their Lord and Saviour

Or, will anyone go to heaven?

Yes plenty more will. I'm one of them.

 

[Jacob]

YesYes and they have been since 30AD for anyone who believes Jesus is their Lord and Saviour Yes plenty more will. I'm one of them.

How is Jesus the only one who has ascended into heaven?

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

How is Jesus the only one who has ascended into heaven?

That's only you saying that. There are no scriptures supporting this belief you have.

 

[Jacob]

That's only you saying that. There are no scriptures supporting this belief you have.

Do you know what I am talking about?

 

[CabinetMaker]

You completely missed the entire point of God giving His Law to His people.

No, I didn't.

 

[genuineoriginal]

How will you get to Heaven when you die?linger:

Going to heaven when you die is a falsehood brought into Christianity by early Gentile believers who "Christianized" the Greek mythology of the underworld. They changed "Elysian Fields" into "heaven" and "Tartarus" into "hell".

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

Going to heaven when you die is a falsehood brought into Christianity by early Gentile believers who "Christianized" the Greek mythology of the underworld. They changed "Elysian Fields" into "heaven" and "Tartarus" into "hell".

'Elysium or the Elysian Fields is a conception of the afterlife that developed over time and was maintained by some Greek religious and philosophical sects and cults.'

Never heard of that but I believe in the Heaven described by Jesus and His instructions as to how to get there.

 

[lifeisgood]

The Bible says when Jesus resurrected that some were resurrected, went into Jerusalem, were recognized by family and friends, and then they are no longer seen? Nothing that says they were reburied. Where did they go? I would say they went with Jesus to where He is.

 

[genuineoriginal]

'Elysium or the Elysian Fields is a conception of the afterlife that developed over time and was maintained by some Greek religious and philosophical sects and cults.'

Never heard of that but I believe in the Heaven described by Jesus and His instructions as to how to get there.

The problem with your statement is that Jesus never gave instructions about how to get to heaven.