beloved57
Well-known member
Sure, the World in Christ!
Does Calvinism Make God Unjust?
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
Sure, the World in Christ!
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Can Robert Pate Actually Explain What "world" Means?
Can Robert Pate Actually Explain What "world" Means?
@Robert Pate
Given that you do not think God knows who will actually believe, you believe God is absent from earth, and you advocate psychopannychia (soul-sleep), understanding how you separate truth from the imperfections you see in Scripture is important.
Moreover, in every response you continue to deflect a direct answer to your bizarre views of the word "world" hoping it will be unnoticed. You plainly state:
To which your statement has been countered...
http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...e-God-Unjust&p=4826175&viewfull=1#post4826175
http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...e-God-Unjust&p=4826015&viewfull=1#post4826015
Is a plain answer from you ever to be forthcoming, Robert?
One can only conclude from your hesitation and continued attempts to wiggle out of answering that you have something to hide or are perhaps embarrassed about. :idunno:
AMR
Can Robert Pate Actually Explain What "world" Means?
@Robert Pate
Good to know you confirm you believe the Bible is not a perfect book. So how do you go about determining when you have encountered imperfections (errors) in the Bible? Please explain your methodology.
Given that you do not think God knows who will actually believe, you believe God is absent from earth, and you advocate psychopannychia (soul-sleep), understanding how you separate truth from the imperfections you see in Scripture is important.
Moreover, in every response you continue to deflect a direct answer to your bizarre views of the word "world" hoping it will be unnoticed. You plainly state:
To which your statement has been countered...
http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...e-God-Unjust&p=4826175&viewfull=1#post4826175
http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...e-God-Unjust&p=4826015&viewfull=1#post4826015
Is a plain answer from you ever to be forthcoming, Robert?
One can only conclude from your hesitation and continued attempts to wiggle out of answering that you have something to hide or are perhaps embarrassed about. :idunno:
AMR
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Ask Mr. Religion
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Robert Pate is a Religious Man After All
Robert Pate is a Religious Man After All
AMR
Robert Pate is a Religious Man After All
Christianity is a religion of faith, Robert. Try to keep up with your own words.
AMR
Ask Mr. Religion
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Take it again and make sure you adjust the sliders below your Agree, Disagree, No Preference choices to indicate exactly how strongly or how little you hold to the questions asked. If you did that, then, free will baptist is a starting point for you.It said I was a free will baptist
But the questions asked are so general.
The point is that a person's claims to not being able to be fit to some label within Christendom is really self-serving sanctimony and does not appreciate the fact that there are some basic essentials that many will agree with or not. Once those are made plain, a label is usually available that will come near to these basics.
If you want to see how you do in other areas, try these:
Trinity:
https://challies.typeform.com/to/I1ntTT
Scripture:
http://www.challies.com/resources/a-quiz-on-the-doctrine-of-scripture
Doctrine of Christ:
https://challies.typeform.com/to/zfV3mn
AMR
Rosenritter
New member
Why do Jesus and God have to be separate? Didn't Jesus say "My Father and I are one" and in another place, "If you have seen me, you have seen the Father?" Doesn't the book tell us that "in the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth" and in another place that all things were created by Jesus? You said, that if Jesus were God, John would have said so...
John 1:1 KJV
(1) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
He did say so. Right at the beginning of his gospel. Not to mention that the entire book of Revelation is chock-full of John recording Jesus Christ himself describing himself as God? What do you think that "Alpha and Omega" stuff was about?
Now God has a right to understate his rank and position, he can allow men to trespass against him for a time, and this is his right to forgive. He is allowed to walk among us either invisible or incognito if he wishes. This is allowable. God makes the rules, who is to deny him this?
What is not allowable is for someone who is not God to take His name, to claim to be God, to call himself God, to call himself by the strongest and most absolute titles of God.
Isaiah 48:11-12 KJV
(11) For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it: for how should my name be polluted? and I will not give my glory unto another.
(12) Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.
If there is One God, then why does Jesus say that "I will be his God?"
Revelation 21:6-7 KJV
(6) And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
(7) He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
Revelation 22:13-16 KJV
(13) I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
(14) Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
(15) For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
(16) I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
If God and Christ are separate as you suggest, then if you finish reading Revelation it looks as if Christ as staged a coup. For there is one God in this end scenario, and Jesus says that he will be our God. And in the process he takes every name and title of God. If God and Christ are separate, then Christ accomplishes what Lucifer failed to do the first time, of ascending to heaven, and making himself God.
Revelation 21:3 KJV
(3) And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
However, if Jesus is God, then there is no conflict between God and Christ, for God is our Christ, and our Christ is our God. Not only this, but we can truly know God as we know Christ, and God is no longer a misty unknown being far far away who hasn't made himself known or seen by us. Having walked among us as the supposed son of the carpenter, he is Revealed as "Alpha and Omega" and the "first and the last" and then it is little wonder why he said that if he were to be killed that he would raise himself.
If God and Christ are separate, then God had no guarantee that he would have a perfect sacrifice to fulfill the prophecy. He would have had to "mind control" the subject just to make sure. Yet if God and Christ are the same, then it makes sense why the sacrifice of Jesus could cover the sins of the world, for who can forgive sins but God alone? If you want something done right, you do it yourself. Who else is good but God?
I could go with pages upon pages here. It boils down to that you must be willing to accept what the scripture says when it says it.
Psalms 24:3-8 KJV
(3) Who shall ascend into the hill of the LORD? or who shall stand in his holy place?
(4) He that hath clean hands, and a pure heart; who hath not lifted up his soul unto vanity, nor sworn deceitfully.
(5) He shall receive the blessing from the LORD, and righteousness from the God of his salvation.
(6) This is the generation of them that seek him, that seek thy face, O Jacob. Selah.
(7) Lift up your heads, O ye gates; and be ye lift up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in.
(8) Who is this King of glory? The LORD strong and mighty, the LORD mighty in battle.
The 22nd Psalm describes the crucifixion of Christ, the 23rd Psalm describes the valley of the shadow of death, and the 24th Psalm describes who shall ascend the hill of the Lord and enter therein. Who enters into the hill of the Lord? The Lord of Glory.
Who is this Lord of Glory? Whenever I've asked this question out loud, stopping at that passage without reading it out loud, the answer I receive is "Jesus" or "sounds like Jesus."
And the Psalm goes on to further elaborate, that Jesus, who did ascend the hill of the Lord and ascended to the Father, is none other than the LORD of Hosts.
Work out the details as you need, but don't deny what it says so plainly. Jesus is the first and the last, the LORD God Almighty, and he will be our God. That is written. If you believe there is one God, then this is a simple equation, regardless of the elaborations that were used leading up to the whole crucifixion event.
marhig
Well-known member
Rosenritter, I'm going to have to take some time to take in that post, but I have to say that Satan tried to become as God, Jesus was exhalted to the highest in heaven by God. he didn't put himself there, so they are totally different, and yes, I do believe that God and Christ are separate because that's clear as day the Bible. But I also believe that they are one and that we can be one with them through the spirit.
I do believe that God was fully seen through Jesus, but not in the way that Jesus is God, but that Jesus was full of the holy spirit and he is the Christ. Jesus was dead to this world, it had nothing in him he didn't live after his flesh, it was dead to him. He lived only to do the will of God and God was seen fully through him, he was in the express image of God, every word he spoke whatever he did was all given to him from God. And he spoke all that was given to him. Jesus went to God for everything, he totally relied on him, why? Because God was the God of Jesus also!
You say that i ignore scripture, so what about all the scripture that says clearly that God is the God of Jesus, including Jesus himself saying that God is his God? Why would Jesus call God his God if God wasn't his God? He doesn't lie. Why would Jesus refer to God as the only true God if he wasn't? In revelation 1:1 it clearly says that the revelation was given to Jesus Christ from God. Why would it say this if Jesus was God? And why do the apostles call God the God and father of our lord Jesus Christ? Why are all these things said in the Bible if Jesus is God? There is too much in the Bible to show that Jesus isn't God.
Was the angel in revelation God? Or the angel at the burning bush, was he God? No! yet you would think that God was talking because they spoke as if they were. But they only spoke what was given them to speak. This is what Jesus did when he came in flesh. We heard God fully through him. He was the word of God made flesh, he didn't judge after the seeing of his eyes, or reprove after the hearing of his ears and his voice was not heard in the streets. He laid down his life for God, and God was fully in him and through him because he was dead to this world by denying it and his flesh fully, Jesus didn't sin once! Sin and Satan had no power over him whatsoever and Satan couldn't touch him because God gave him the strength to overcome and the power over all flesh because he always did Gods will and not his own. He was sinless and pure he was and is the Christ, the holy son of God and not God the son which is nowhere in the scriptures!
I have to believe what I see is right before God, and not what others tell me is right. And i see that Jesus is the Christ, the son of the living God, and that God is the God and father of Jesus also.
I will go over your post again in more detail after. I'm going to be busy today, I've got lots to do
marhig
Well-known member
I'll ask the question in a different way,
What does this scripture mean to you?
Mark 16:15
KJV
And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
NIV
He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.
I'm honestly interested as to how you see this?
beloved57
Well-known member
I dont need to answer that question, unless you produce a scripture that specifically says the world means all humanity like you stated earlier, and you have yet shown a scripture that says that !
Just like the word "whosoever" means Calvinist only.
B57 has a lot of problem with some of the words in the Bible. When Jesus said "Go into the world and preach the Gospel". B57 thinks that the word "world" means only those that are Calvinist. If it means everyone, like Hebrews 2:9, Then his Calvinist religion falls apart.
popsthebuilder
New member
I've taken all of these tests.
They ate laden with contradiction and human error in my personal opinion.
The one to decipher sect said I was 100% sda
Yet asked no question about vegan or vegetarian, and seemed to assume it's answer simply off of two questions. One being the capacity of women to preach, and the other being the day of Sabbath.
It also tried to say I was a liberal Quaker and Unitarian Universalist.
There you go AMR... All the ammo you should ever need to consider me not of the faithful.
Really though, these quizzes are biased and error laden. Predisposed to an opinion based on the opinion of the designer of the tests.
It was fun though and informative.
So thank you
Peace
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The atheists sins no more according to the arminians
beloved57
Well-known member
You teach that sinners Christ died for are going to perish in their sins, so making Christ death ineffectual!
Only when like you they reject the Gospel and justification by faith.
Jesus claims to be the savior of the world, "For I came not to judge the world, but to SAVE THE WORLD" John 12:47.
How do you sleep at night knowing that you have rejected the words of Jesus?
Where does it say that in the Bible?
You make this stuff up and then throw it out for discussion.
popsthebuilder
New member
The atheist and the theist/ deist all sin, yet the atheist, if in actual ignorance (not willfully spiteful towards GOD, as one ignorant of GOD cannot justifiably hate GOD in any form) is actually safer than those who profess their faith in vain, that blasphemous spirit that speaks of one thing yet lives, or is rather dead in their own secret misdirection.
Peace
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Peace
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Do you mean that you might be better off in the judgment to be an atheist, than to blasphemy God with a false religion or doctrine?
popsthebuilder
New member
Only if you are knowingly against the will of GOD as the hypocrite.
Or ignorant of the will or presence of GOD and your natural inclinations are of a compassionate, selfless, honest nature.
Yes
Peace
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False Prophet
New member
God is not unjust, for it is impossible for God to lie. It is people who are unjust, and they make the claim that God is unjust.
[5] But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
[6] Who will render to every man according to his deeds: Ro 2
This is the righteous judgment of God. "Behold I am coming quickly, to render to every one according to what he has done." For it is not the hearers of the law that are just before God, but the doers of the law that are just before God. Yes the dietary ordinances and the sacrifices have been done away with, but the new covenant has not been done away with. You are to love the Lord thy God with all thy heart and thy neighbor as thyself.
Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man)
[6] God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world? Ro 3
[5] But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
[6] Who will render to every man according to his deeds: Ro 2
This is the righteous judgment of God. "Behold I am coming quickly, to render to every one according to what he has done." For it is not the hearers of the law that are just before God, but the doers of the law that are just before God. Yes the dietary ordinances and the sacrifices have been done away with, but the new covenant has not been done away with. You are to love the Lord thy God with all thy heart and thy neighbor as thyself.
Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man)
[6] God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world? Ro 3
What part of "Whole World" do you not understand? Are you illiterate?
1 John 2:2 KJV -
Those scriptures are for the house of Israel. Things that are different are not the same.