You're a "DOUBLY" entrenched, WACKO!!
Does Calvinism Make God Unjust?
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
You're a "DOUBLY" entrenched, WACKO!!
beloved57
Well-known member
What you teach is a attack on the blood of Christ, saying folks that it's shed for are lost anyways.
beloved57
Well-known member
The whole world in Christ!
There is no scripture that says, "The whole world in Christ".
You just kind of make things up hoping that they are true.
Whatever "School of Thought" you come from (speaking in generalities) Christ shed His blood for the sins of ALL humanity, past, present, and future. However, like I have said countless times before, one can ONLY reap the benefits of Christ's death and resurrection by, hearing the Gospel and placing ALL their faith, in Christ as their Savior. Whereas, all those who reject God's "free gift" will stand before Him and be judged by their "WORKS" and cast into the "Lake of Fire" for eternity. (Revelation 20:12)
Perhaps, it makes him FEEL special?
Calvinist are suffering from a bad case of narcissism. They think that salvation is all about them and being predestinated.
beloved57
Well-known member
I'm ok, that verse fits you
Ask Mr. Religion
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Robert Pate's Low View of God and the Bible
Robert Pate's Low View of God and the Bible
[MENTION=9508]Robert Pate[/MENTION]
You confirm you believe the Bible is not a perfect book. So how do you go about determining when you have encountered imperfections (errors) in the Bible? Please explain your methodology so we can understand how words like "world" mean what you think they mean.
Given that you do not think God knows who will actually believe, you believe God is absent from earth, and you advocate psychopannychia (soul-sleep), understanding how you separate truth from the imperfections you see in Scripture is important.
AMR
Robert Pate's Low View of God and the Bible
[MENTION=9508]Robert Pate[/MENTION]
How would you know this, Robert?
You confirm you believe the Bible is not a perfect book. So how do you go about determining when you have encountered imperfections (errors) in the Bible? Please explain your methodology so we can understand how words like "world" mean what you think they mean.
Given that you do not think God knows who will actually believe, you believe God is absent from earth, and you advocate psychopannychia (soul-sleep), understanding how you separate truth from the imperfections you see in Scripture is important.
AMR
popsthebuilder
New member
Rolling on the floor laughing over some auto correct errors, and insisting that none should care because of them.
Wow.
The more I read of your posts the more your true colors shine through.
Peace
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Try to lighten up a wee bit. If you cannot laugh at your own foibles then you are just not confident in yourself.
Turn off auto-correct on your smart phone or tablet, too.
AMR
popsthebuilder
New member
An innocent poke or jest is not what that was.
I also never said I was confident in myself. You might have gathered that from my previous hints at self loathing tendencies.
Regardless; that doesn't change the initial nature of your post or the fact that you said you basically should ignore my post because of a typing/ spelling error.
Lastly, I really don't care about the negativity, but would have rathered your honest opinion in relation to the actual subject matter.
I do enjoy your opinion when it isn't rife with negativity and or pride.
Peace
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Like I have said before the Bible was written by men that were inspired by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit does not make men perfect. It is very apparent that James was a Judaizer. Peter had to be corrected by Paul. He didn't understand the Gospel. The Bible does not hide the sins and mistakes of God's people. There are some errors in the Bible, but they are minor errors.
The purpose of the Bible is to be a witness for Jesus Christ and his Gospel. It is not a Christian Torah for Christians to live by. We are called to live by Spirit and not law. The full revelation of Christ and his Gospel are clearly revealed in the scriptures. There is no excuse for anyone not to know what the Gospel is. That is if they want to know. Religious people don't want to hear and believe the Gospel because the Gospel is not about them.
Anyone that would adhere to the writings of John Calvin, knowing what kind of a man he was, has got to be totally nuts.
Rosenritter
New member
Rosenritter, I'm going to have to take some time to take in that post, but I have to say that Satan tried to become as God, Jesus was exhalted to the highest in heaven by God. he didn't put himself there, so they are totally different, and yes, I do believe that God and Christ are separate because that's clear as day the Bible. But I also believe that they are one and that we can be one with them through the spirit.
I do believe that God was fully seen through Jesus, but not in the way that Jesus is God, but that Jesus was full of the holy spirit and he is the Christ. Jesus was dead to this world, it had nothing in him he didn't live after his flesh, it was dead to him. He lived only to do the will of God and God was seen fully through him, he was in the express image of God, every word he spoke whatever he did was all given to him from God. And he spoke all that was given to him. Jesus went to God for everything, he totally relied on him, why? Because God was the God of Jesus also!
You say that i ignore scripture, so what about all the scripture that says clearly that God is the God of Jesus, including Jesus himself saying that God is his God? Why would Jesus call God his God if God wasn't his God? He doesn't lie. Why would Jesus refer to God as the only true God if he wasn't? In revelation 1:1 it clearly says that the revelation was given to Jesus Christ from God. Why would it say this if Jesus was God? And why do the apostles call God the God and father of our lord Jesus Christ? Why are all these things said in the Bible if Jesus is God? There is too much in the Bible to show that Jesus isn't God.
Was the angel in revelation God? Or the angel at the burning bush, was he God? No! yet you would think that God was talking because they spoke as if they were. But they only spoke what was given them to speak. This is what Jesus did when he came in flesh. We heard God fully through him. He was the word of God made flesh, he didn't judge after the seeing of his eyes, or reprove after the hearing of his ears and his voice was not heard in the streets. He laid down his life for God, and God was fully in him and through him because he was dead to this world by denying it and his flesh fully, Jesus didn't sin once! Sin and Satan had no power over him whatsoever and Satan couldn't touch him because God gave him the strength to overcome and the power over all flesh because he always did Gods will and not his own. He was sinless and pure he was and is the Christ, the holy son of God and not God the son which is nowhere in the scriptures!
I have to believe what I see is right before God, and not what others tell me is right. And i see that Jesus is the Christ, the son of the living God, and that God is the God and father of Jesus also.
I will go over your post again in more detail after. I'm going to be busy today, I've got lots to do
As a preface, none of this is said with any ill will. And I didn't say you ignored all scripture, I meant you ignored some scripture. The way you are understanding currently absorbs some scripture but ignores other parts, so the picture you have is going to be a bit different. If you absorbed the other parts you put aside, it would cause a conflict with your current understanding. If it can be allowed, perhaps I could answer your questions for instead?
God is the God of God, he is his own God. Think of the alternative please. What would it mean if Jesus said he had no God? The role that he took was that of a man, a man that would be subject to all the same laws of nature of rules of law from both God and man, so that he would be perfect under the law, and serve not only as an example for us, but as proof that he has walked the proverbial mile in our shoes.
I'll give an example with a modern analogy. If I was a player in a video game, and I told other players that I had found a bug and would submit it to the system administrator, it might seem that there were more than one person involved. Yet in this example, I am also the system administrator. It's a matter that I still want to deal with the player base as one of them. As a player I am subject to all of the rules of the game even though in a moment I could break them if I so chose.
John 1:10-12 KJV
(10) He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
(11) He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
(12) But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
What was that name? I believe that name was Jesus.
He does allow people to be misled by coming to their own conclusions. See Matthew 16:13, also John 21:20-23.And by the same token, if Jesus doesn't lie, besides other things he also said in Revelation that he will be our God. I don't see any way to interpret that differently.
But He is the only true God. Were you thinking of two separate people when you said that? But besides that, when Jesus walked the earth with us he wasn't filling the role of "God" he was filling the role of "Sacrifice" and "elder brother." There's a time and place for all things, and when you're about to be nailed to the cross, to allow them to nail you to the cross, is not when you are claiming the rank and title of God. Remember, "God" is not a name. It is not a person. It is a title and position.
At that point it's still a matter of indirection, like my example of the programmer participating in his own game. Revelation is designed to reveal Jesus Christ, even from the perspective you have now of someone that is still a little short of complete recognition. Someone with the perception that Jesus was merely a powerful prophet can open this book, and recognize that it is from Jesus and God given. No conflict for either of us yet. But where that book goes, that's an eye-opener. If there was any confusion before, this book says it's time for it to be clear. Jesus is the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last, the LORD of Hosts that spoke to Isaiah, our one and only God and King of Kings, and he shall be our God forevermore. That's what the book says. That's who it says that Christ truly is.
For the same reason that I would have the same system admin as everyone else when I was participating in my own creation. Who else is going to be the God of Jesus? Would you rather say he was godless? Or worse yet, that someone else was his god?
It would be spoken of in that sense to emphasize that Jesus had legitimacy. Not self-created authority but the oldest and greatest authority. If you want to know who Jesus truly was, it either requires a little deeper reading, a little more familiarity with the Old Testament, or reading until the end of the Book, to its conclusion called Revelation, the finale. But in the meantime, there is still no contradiction. Jesus referred to God as "his Father" to show his source of authority.
Yet even then there are times when it's fairly obvious.
Luke 5:21-24 KJV
(21) And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?
(22) But when Jesus perceived their thoughts, he answering said unto them, What reason ye in your hearts?
(23) Whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Rise up and walk?
(24) But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power upon earth to forgive sins, (he said unto the sick of the palsy,) I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy couch, and go into thine house.
Actually, none of what you have shown says that Jesus is not God. You are assuming that Jesus is not God because you are assuming that they are two different people. Which is a type of circular logic. You are caught up in the "whys" and "hows" and shutting out the plain 'Thus saith Jesus" and "Thus saith the Psalms" and "Thus saith Isaiah" that says that Jesus is our God.
Luke 4:8 KJV
(8) And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
John 9:35-38 KJV
(35) Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God?
(36) He answered and said, Who is he, Lord, that I might believe on him?
(37) And Jesus said unto him, Thou hast both seen him, and it is he that talketh with thee.
(38) And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him.
Luke 24:50-52 KJV
(50) And he led them out as far as to Bethany, and he lifted up his hands, and blessed them.
(51) And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.
(52) And they worshipped him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy:
Matthew 28:16-17 KJV
(16) Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.
(17) And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.
You can't go wrong by worshiping Jesus. When men tried to worship the apostles, they forbade it. When men tried to worship angels, they forbade it. When Jesus was asked by Satan to worship him, he rebuked the devil, and reminded him that there was only ONE whom was worthy of worship. Yet Jesus accepted worship. What does that say? It means that the Devil should have bowed in worship to Jesus, rather than the other way around. Why? Because it is written, Thou shalt worship only the Lord thy God.
The angel in Revelation said not to worship him. Therefore, he was not God. The angel in the burning bush demanded worship, even declaring that its presence made the ground holy. The angel at the burning bush was God. The term "angel" does not define the person speaking, other than it speaks for God or in the service of God. Sometimes, that angel is God himself. Such as the angel that wrestled Jacob. At one place called a man, in other places God identifies that angel as himself.
Genesis 48:15-16 KJV
(15) And he blessed Joseph, and said, God, before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac did walk, the God which fed me all my life long unto this day,
(16) The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.
Don't get too caught up on the word "angel" ... context defines these things. The truest test is whether the angel accepts or forbids worship.
Revelation 22:8-9 KJV
(8) And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.
(9) Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.
Who created the heavens and the earth and all things?
Revelation 4:8-11 KJV
(8) And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.
(9) And when those beasts give glory and honour and thanks to him that sat on the throne, who liveth for ever and ever,
(10) The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying,
(11) Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.
Colossians 1:14-16 KJV
(14) In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
(15) Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
(16) For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Genesis 1:1 KJV
(1) In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
John 1:1-3 KJV
(1) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(2) The same was in the beginning with God.
(3) All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
John 1:10, 14 KJV
(10) He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
(14) And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
One of the best means of identification of God is that of Creator. Who Created all things? We have a title and we have a name. That title is God and that name is Jesus.
Can you go wrong by worshiping Jesus? What does that imply? Did Jesus ever rebuke or correct someone who worshiped him? There are no places that say that Jesus was not God. There are some places where Jesus acts as if he were simply one of us, but there are so many places that tell us that Jesus was God.
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Rosenritter
New member
Did you just say that "Love God" and "Love thy neighbor" are not applicable to the Christian?
The 'kind of man' John Calvin was, was a theologian in the 1500's with monumental responsibilities during a time of civil unrest. He wasn't some wad of cookie dough you all teach that a person should be in a world with little to fear.
You all are indebted to those such as Calvin really- but instead of recognizing it, you act like the typical, modern idiot who takes all for granted.