Then no, you have never seen it happen yourself and God only moves spiritually in asia? (where we cannot verify claims)
ECT Do you see All, Some, None of the Spiritual Gifts in Operation Today?
- Thread starter JesusFan
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Then no, you have never seen it happen yourself and God only moves spiritually in asia? (where we cannot verify claims)
Hogwash. If this was the case (are you sure it was AOG...this sounds totally like the United Pentecostal sect). Tell me the name and location of the church. If it was AOG, I will report them to HQ. If it was not, your credibility and integrity has just sunk again.
I bet it was UPC, a group AOG condemns. One also cannot teach people to speak in tongues. If it was AOG, I will try to get the pastor's credentials pulled and him kicked out of the church.
Put your money where your mouth is. I will assume you made an innocent mistake and are not a liar.
Right, you say it happens but now say its NOT a listed gift when asked for validation.
Atheists argue that we are to test all things and hold fast to what is good? That is what i am doing.
Have you, yes or no, seen someone raised from the dead, or seen a limb restored. If anyone in your church has a gift of healing, you should know about at least ONE of these things.
Waiting...
Hey, arrogant North American idiot. GFA has much integrity and the founder lives in Texas. Just because they are brown does not mean the miracles are not well documented and checked out by arrogant Americans. These things also happen here, but to a lesser degree thanks to people with massive unbelief influenced by the spirit of the age, self-sufficient Americans who barely need or want God, etc. You have bought into a lie and prefer a scientific, naturalistic worldview over a biblical one. They have more need and openness and do not grieve and quench the Spirit like too many here do.
They said they were Assemblies of God and it said it on the church. I'm sorry that when i was 17 years old, I didn't ask the pastor for his credentials or to prove to me what denominational affiliation he claimed.
If you would like to make yourself a false witness by calling me a liar, be my guest. You answer to God for it.
You will know them by their love for one another....
I don't know you. I don't want to know the God you claim to worship either.
I am not saying you are a liar. How many years ago was this? If what you say is true, this is NOT typical of AOG, but is typical of UPC. Any church can be legalistic. Your perception might also be off as to the tongues issue (you were not mature and wise at that point necessarily and may have misunderstood things). The slander is to stereotype a whole denomination based on an experience that would not be condoned by it or practiced by the vast majority.
I still would not be surprised it they were not affiliated with AOG. There are independent groups or even UPC groups that could call their local church an Assembly of God without being part of AOG denomination. Right?
You are the one attacking fellow believers with slander and taking an unbiblical position of unbelief. I am not being too patient because you are dogmatic in your ignorance (arrogant). Love does not condone slander or attack on biblical truth.
We worship the same triune God, so chill. You must be young. Just because I am being indignant is not proof that we have different Gods?! Just because sozo is a jerk does not mean I can accuse him of having a different God.
Do you worship Islamic Allah? Buddha? If we affirm the same statement of faith, you can object to my rebuke of you, but you cannot make a stupid claim that my triune God/Deity of Christ is different than yours?!
If you want to get in a snit, you should be rebuking Nick, STP, sozo, johnw, etc. who routinely call fellow believers demonic, hell bound, etc. over peripheral things. I am not doing that to you and have a defensible position compared to you. Don't be a hypocrite. Get mad at them if you are going to be upset with me.
Matthew 10:8
8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out demons. Freely you have received, freely give.
Con artist, and not a very good one. :nono:
How many raisings count? There are modern reports of all these things.
You guys are also using that rare miracle as an argument against I Cor. 12-14; Eph. 4:11-13; Rom. 12:3-8 Spiritual gifts do not rise or fall on me raising a dead person!
Non-sequitur! You don't have an argument, just an atheistic, stupid one against the existence of God that fails (read the link, idiot).
Its not slander to tell the truth and i was plenty old enough to know what someone taking me to a back room and telling me repeatedly each time i was there to just open my mouth and emit sounds while rolling my tongue and "let it come" is and that if i couldn't get the hang of it, it would prove i lacked 'evidence' of salvation and did i really want the others there to see my lack of salvation?
I was old enough to understand them telling me too that makeup was a sin, that i couldnt cut my hair, and that the only jewelry that was allowed by God was a watch and a wedding ring and that women were required to wear dresses all the time.
So you better believed I studied my bible back and forth to find out what 'evidence' of salvation is and there is no such thing and all the other oral laws they made up as they went.
Never could find half the congregation speaking in tongues at the same time and running in the pews all random and moaning with no interpretation as being any biblical either. And if someone asked for healing and werent healed, it meant they didnt have enough faith - but God forbid it be a false teacher with no healing gift right?
How dare you tell me what happened to me. You are as pompous and unbiblical as they are. No doubt cut from the same heretical cloth that teach lying signs and wonders as 'evidence' of salvation.
The only evidence of salvation i need is the Holy Spirit present in me. I don't care what you or anyone else think about it either.
Sorry, i didnt ask for their credentials like i said. I just know what they called themselves and what it said on the church itself.
Liar. False witness. Hypocrite. False Teacher.
I have slandered no one, you have slandered me.
Jesus said it is a wicked and idolatrous generation that seeks a sign and NONE will be given them except the sign of Jonah.
I do not see, and yet I believe.
My position is asking for evidence to test you, you FAIL.
You are saying this is Assemblies of God belief and practice. This is patently false. Look at their website. Tongues is NOT a salvific issue, but it is for the UPC sect. I cannot imagine any credentialed AOG pastor or church teaching or doing what you claim. I don't dispute your experience, but don't try to make it sound like it is an AOG thing vs one church, one man, possibly a totally different group.
You are throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Because of your negative experience, you are rejecting a straw man and a legit biblical practice and belief. If I was in that church, I would publicly take them all to task, starting with the leader. If they were AOG, the guy would no longer be by the time they investigated him.
You are using Jesus' words in a context about Pharisees and unbelievers to negate a biblical practice and belief for believers/church in I Cor. 12-14 and Acts?!
You really should reconsider giving input on a theology site. Your argument is nonsensical proof texting out of context. If you are going to argue against spiritual gifts in the church, you must do so from Acts and I Cor. for believers, not a verse of rebuke from unbelievers. The problem was not the miracles of Jesus, but their wicked hearts. The problem is not spiritual gifts, but the abuse of them. Paul brought correction, but did not take a cessationist position like was developed later in church history that you are accepting as a reactionary vs exegetical position.
I expect this from godless, rationalistic JW cults, not from true Christians like you. Quit grieving and quenching the Spirit and quit promoting an unbiblical view with lame arguments. Rail against charlatans, not against the true works of the Spirit in this generation.
I said no such lie. I said the church that did that to me was assemblies of God, you created the rest in your feigned outrage.
I dont care what their website says, i know what church i was at, and what they did.
I reject the things you say also and you say you are assemblies of God, thats enough for me to know its not for me.
A4T--This sounds so much like a church I attended when I was about thirteen or so, in Arkansas. It was my aunt's church. And, it was a United Pentecostal Church that called itself Jenny Lind Assembly of God. Underneath the name, on the sign, it said in really small writing, "A proud member of the UPC." I remember the pastor yelling at my mom and my aunt about me and my sisters wearing long pants and short sleeves to school, having our hair cut to our shoulders, and my mom wearing makeup.
The Assembly of God church, Calvary First Assembly of God, I attended a few years later was noting like JLAOG, except that they were a pentecostal branch. My pastor at CFAOG taught us that God will take us as we were and mold us into what He wanted us to be. The biggest difference between JLAOG and CFAOG that I noticed, as a pre-teen and teenager, was the love shown to everyone who entered the doors of CFAOG. No one could enter the doors at CFAOG without being greeted, introduced around, or having his/her had shaken. They always asked adult members what they could do for them, prayerwise, financially, counseling, etc... Yes. CFAOG believed in speaking in tongues and healings. But, they didn't believe that the only way you could be saved is to speak in tongues.
I attend an Assembly of God church, today, that is similar to CFAOG. I don't necessarily agree with everything the AOG church believes. But, it's the closest to what I do believe.
I'm sure that godrulz doesn't think anything wrong about you. I know that I don't. I'm thinking that the church you attended did the same thing the one I attended did.
Neither of us believes that signs and wonders are evidence of salvation. I believe that Satan/the anti-Christ will copy Christ's miracles in the last days. Although I believe in speaking in tongues, I don't believe that everyone should do it. Speaking in tongues is a sign of being a Christian, not the sign of being a Christian. There is no true way to know if someone is a Christian. We are humans, living on a human world. Basically, until we're shown direct proof that someone is not Christian, we have no way of knowing if someone is telling the truth about it or not.
Like me, you were a kid. I had no choice but to attend the church my mother wanted me to attend (She made me and my sister go to her aunt's Mormon church when I was in high school.). When I was sixteen, my mom told me that I was not allowed to attend any church after the one we were attending finally caught on to my mom using the church for money, groceries, or anything else she could get. I didn't go to another church until I was 17 and living 2000 miles from my mom.
Are we at all to look at present conditions and circumstances to discover God's will concerning a matter?
How would the reformation have happened? if Luther had looked at the church and concluded that all he saw was God's will?
We have to look at the scripture, what the church was in scripture is what the church was intended to be till the end of the age.
"As the Father hath sent Me so send I you" how did the Father send His Son? operating in the power and gifts of the Holy Spirit, word of knowledge, word of wisdom, prophecy, healing, miracles, administration.
This was the earthly body of our Lord Jesus Christ.
At Jerusalem after that the Holy Spirit had come you will see the church, the body of Christ doing the same things among the people, word of wisdom, word of knowledge, discernment of spirits, miracles, healing, prophecy, administration. All these were the functions of the body of Christ in Jerusalem...as in our Lord's earthly ministry it was the Holy Ghost, not only preaching the kingdom of God but DEMONSTRATING it.
Go now to the assemblies Paul set up, the body of Christ at Corinth, even among the heathen [who always were a rougher sort than the Jews and a hundred times the more difficult] nevertheless we see the body of Christ IN ACTION, healing, miracles, administration, discerning of spirits, prophecy, tongues and interpretation of tongues, word of wisdom, word of knowledge.
How very dull of christians in this age to suppose that we can win the battle in this day by mere human intellect and storytelling and rituals and formal prayers.
Back to the bible Luther said...but he only went back to the backslidden fathers
Back to the bible cried Calvin....but he only went back to the backslidden fathers.
Yes there is a WEALTH of evidence but as when Jesus raised Lazarus people do not wish to see it....if they believed it they would have to put an end to their backsliding ways.
Hunk of meat? Explain that one will you.
Are you a USDA center cut prime rib New York Filet Mignon?
Hunk of meat? That's right up there with idiot, moron, etc.
Paul is it, remember he that thinks he stands take heed least he fall.
Paul is it, Hunk of meat is it, you could have posted without that "Hunk of meat" business.
Paul is it, the change you name or change your conduct.
This is already not a good day, I'll try think better of others as the day progresses.
Hunk of meat :madmad:
Are you a USDA center cut prime rib New York Filet Mignon?
Hunk of meat? That's right up there with idiot, moron, etc.
Paul is it, remember he that thinks he stands take heed least he fall.
Paul is it, Hunk of meat is it, you could have posted without that "Hunk of meat" business.
Paul is it, the change you name or change your conduct.
This is already not a good day, I'll try think better of others as the day progresses.
Hunk of meat :madmad:
