Do you have to believe in the Trinity to be a Christian?

[Bright Raven]

So show us a verse where "trinity, triune, dual nature, mother of God" shows up?

Why are you smart enough to use words God did not find fit to use in scripture?

1 John 5:7-8 Modern English Version (MEV)

7 There are three who testify in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and the three are one.

8 There are three that testify on earth: the Spirit, the water, and the blood, and the three are toward the one.[a]

 

[oatmeal]

1 John 5:7-8 Modern English Version (MEV)

7 There are three who testify in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and the three are one.

8 There are three that testify on earth: the Spirit, the water, and the blood, and the three are toward the one.[a]

Sorry, but not one of those words are in those verses.

Any belief in extra scriptural doctrines is not necessary to be a Christian.

I would have thought you would have known that.

 

[Bright Raven]

Sorry, but not one of those words are in those verses.

Any belief in extra scriptural doctrines is not necessary to be a Christian.

I would have thought you would have known that.

You are about as bright as a burned out light bulb! It doesn't matter genius! The doctrine is there!

 

[StanJ]

You are about as bright as a burned out light bulb! It doesn't matter genius! The doctrine is there!

He's actually not even plugged into a proper socket on top of that!

 

[Bright Raven]

He's actually not even plugged into a proper socket on top of that!

The truth blew out his bulb.

 

[achduke]

Hi! And thank you so much for answering me!

Ahh, but now I do feel bad because although your words are lovely -- I think I could so tackily bowl them down like pins in a bowling alley...
And I feel sure you did not do that lovely a job to have that happen...

Oh, please forgive me.

Hi rainee,

Do not worry I will not hold it against you. From now on how about I root the pins in scripture to make them stand and you can fill the ball with verses to see if you can knock them down. At the very least maybe we will find the truth. I am always open to the truth.

I hate to copy Tot, but if people beget people how does God not beget God?

The Spirit descends upon Jesus. Jesus has the fullness of the Holy Spirit in him.

Matthew 3:16 Then Jesus, when He had been baptized, came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him.

Matthew 3:17 And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."

Psalms 2:7 "I will declare the decree: The LORD has said to Me, You are My Son, Today I have begotten You."

Luke 4:1 Then Jesus, being filled with the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness,

Colossians 2:9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily

God is spirit.

John 4:24 "God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."

Jesus's new spiritual body has flesh and blood even after he has risen.

Luke 24:39 "Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have."

1 Corinthians 15:44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Those that are led by the Spirit of God will also be children of God. Jesus is the only begotten and the first fruits.

Romans 8:9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.

Sir, this is true of John the Baptist. In fact this is an example of the biggest problem I have with many here I respect in other areas but they do not see for some reason exactly how important all information about John The Baptist is...
So please, remember now, and please tell:
What is different between The Lord and John the Baptist?

John the Baptist had the Holy Spirit but it does not say he had the fullness of the Holy spirit or Godhead like Christ. John the Baptist was also not sinless and had a human father.

Luke 1:15 "For he will be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink. He will also be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother's womb.

Christ was given new garments (body) and the spirits of God.

Zechariah 3:4 Then He answered and spoke to those who stood before Him, saying, "Take away the filthy garments from him." And to him He said, "See, I have removed your iniquity from you, and I will clothe you with rich robes."

Zechariah 3:9 For behold, the stone that I have laid before Joshua: upon the stone are seven eyes. Behold, I will engrave its inscription,' says the LORD of hosts, 'And I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day.

Zechariah 4:6 So he answered and said to me: "This is the word of the LORD to Zerubbabel: 'Not by might nor by power, but by My Spirit,' says the LORD of hosts.

Zechariah 4:10 For who has despised the day of small things? for these seven rejoice to see the plumb line in the hand of Zerubbabel. They are the eyes of the LORD, which scan to and fro throughout the whole earth."

Revelation 3:1 "And to the angel of the church in Sardis write, 'These things says He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars: "I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead.

How about we start here and we take it slow, precept by precept.

 

[rainee]

Greetings A!
I can't stay right now but appreciate what you put into your post, thank you!

I don't want to be a difficult woman, lol, (kidding) -

but to take this on precept by precept for those like this for me, sir, is:
Every verse you post that shows The Lord was truly man is very good and right.

He is the Son of man, born of a woman.

However, He is not only The Son of man as you have pointed out.

He is The Son of God.

As you said not like John the Baptist, thou he also had a miracle birth...
Not like John the Baptist, though The Holy Spirt was in John from before birth...

And, sir, John the Baptist is what many thought and think the Messiah should be...such an extraordinary, devoted, gifted, holy man...like none before or after will we ever see again...

Oh but you did point out his one human flaw... He would not be without sin.
Though many might not know what his sin was?

According to Paul anything not done in faith is sin...and poor John balked one little moment when he tried to take in what God in the flesh would really be about, didn't he? He asked for confirmation as he crumbled under doubts.

But The Lord never batted an eye, did He?
Praised that holy man more than I can even take in!!
Be back later I hope.

And now for you a joke:
Woman to man: I had to leave the car, it won't start.

Man: What?! I just got new this and that, and replaced the this and that...

Woman: I can't help that, I had to leave it, it won't start...

Man: Where did you leave it?

Woman: In the river.

 

[achduke]

Greetings A!
I can't stay right now but appreciate what you put into your post, thank you!

I don't want to be a difficult woman, lol, (kidding) -

but to take this on precept by precept for those like this for me, sir, is:
Every verse you post that shows The Lord was truly man is very good and right.

He is the Son of man, born of a woman.

However, He is not only The Son of man as you have pointed out.

He is The Son of God.

As you said not like John the Baptist, thou he also had a miracle birth...
Not like John the Baptist, though The Holy Spirt was in John from before birth...

And, sir, John the Baptist is what many thought and think the Messiah should be...such an extraordinary, devoted, gifted, holy man...like none before or after will we ever see again...

Oh but you did point out his one human flaw... He would not be without sin.
Though many might not know what his sin was?

According to Paul anything not done in faith is sin...and poor John balked one little moment when he tried to take in what God in the flesh would really be about, didn't he? He asked for confirmation as he crumbled under doubts.

But The Lord never batted an eye, did He?
Praised that holy man more than I can even take in!!
Be back later I hope.

And now for you a joke:
Woman to man: I had to leave the car, it won't start.

Man: What?! I just got new this and that, and replaced the this and that...

Woman: I can't help that, I had to leave it, it won't start...

Man: Where did you leave it?

Woman: In the river.

LOL on your joke,

When I mean precept upon precept I think we can group them together. I just do not want to discuss a whole book at a time. Maybe a paragraph or subject matter.

 

[daqq]

You Joos are responsible....

Since you responded in this manner to Ben Masada it is plain as day what you mean by "Joos". So now you have "the Whites" who are to blame for something else in one of your previous posts, which I brought up and you never responded to, and now you say "the Joos" are responsible for something else you do not like? You and your comrades here in this thread are not doing a very good job of showing us all what it means to be a "Christian", (WOW).

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Since you responded in this manner to Ben Masada it is plain as day what you mean by "Joos". So now you have "the Whites" who are to blame for something else in one of your previous posts, which I brought up and you never responded to, and now you say "the Joos" are responsible for something else you do not like? You and your comrades here in this thread are not doing a very good job of showing us all what it means to be a "Christian", (WOW).

We still don't know what your Testimony of Faith is? How did you
get saved? Why do you think you're saved? Can you lose your
position in Christ? In other words "Other" what do you actually
believe? Why keep that a secret?

 

[Totton Linnet]

So in other words, since God is invisible and Jesus is not, they are not one and the same.

Simple words with simple meanings, so simple even a fool could understand them, but you miss their simple meanings

Christ is the visibility of the invisible God. Anyone who claims they worship God is lying because He cannot be known...except through Christ...the ONLY way to worship God is by worshipping Christ.

 

[Totton Linnet]

Since you responded in this manner to Ben Masada it is plain as day what you mean by "Joos". So now you have "the Whites" who are to blame for something else in one of your previous posts, which I brought up and you never responded to, and now you say "the Joos" are responsible for something else you do not like? You and your comrades here in this thread are not doing a very good job of showing us all what it means to be a "Christian", (WOW).

I LOVE the Joos, fervently

 

[RevTestament]

By the way, RT, the simple fact alone that Yeshua was begotten in/on a certain DAY, even "THIS DAY", according to the statement from Acts 13:33 quoting Psalm 2:7, reveals that he was begotten IN TIME.

:thumb:
on this we agree, which is why I cannot attest to the Nicene or other creeds which teach He was begotten before all ages or worlds.
That, however, does not mean that he was begotten on this world as your codex Bezae tries to change in Luke (only I might add). All the NT shows that He was sent and came as the only begotten Son - therefore eliminating the possibility that He was begotten in His baptism. According to the truth of the whole gospel, He was begotten before He came to this creation. Cheers

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Jesus's new spiritual body has flesh and blood even after he has risen

.

No blood.

LA

 

[Lazy afternoon]

:thumb:
on this we agree, which is why I cannot attest to the Nicene or other creeds which teach He was begotten before all ages or worlds.
That, however, does not mean that he was begotten on this world as your codex Bezae tries to change in Luke (only I might add). All the NT shows that He was sent and came as the only begotten Son - therefore eliminating the possibility that He was begotten in His baptism. According to the truth of the whole gospel, He was begotten before He came to this creation. Cheers

No.

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Act 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

Heb 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

I LOVE the Joos, fervently

Please provide valid and substantial genetic proof to know who the alleged "Joos" are that you love fervently. Thanks in advance.

And why are you a respecter of persons and a racist?

 

[RevTestament]

No.

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Act 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again[anistemi Iesous anistemi]; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

Heb 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

Yes

1 John 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.


John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

 

[Totton Linnet]

Please provide valid and substantial genetic proof to know who the alleged "Joos" are that you love fervently. Thanks in advance.

And why are you a respecter of persons and a racist?

Oh do shut up

 

[aikido7]

The word "Trinity" is a label used in theology--nothing more, nothing less.

It is used as sort of a "short cut" to describe the dogmatic phrase "Father, Son and Holy Ghost."

It developed from theologians arguing their conjectures generations after the crucifixion. To me, it is immaterial as to whether or not a Christian "believes in" this concept.

To me a Christian is someone who sees the character and passion of God on earth as disclosed in the life of Jesus.

 

[Dan Emanuel]

The word "Trinity" is a label used in theology--nothing more, nothing less...

Well, thats where we are :chuckle:: Theology Online.

...It is used as sort of a "short cut" to describe the dogmatic phrase "Father, Son and Holy Ghost."

It developed from theologians...

It [quite] did. Thank you :e4e: for reminding us that the Apostle's were all also theologian's.

...arguing their conjectures generations after the crucifixion. To me, it is immaterial as to whether or not a Christian "believes in" this concept...

I think its very material, in contrast. When the Church celebrate's the mass, the mass is Trinitarian. A non-Trinitarian Christian need's to accept it, and not be offended, and judging; but its difficult for them.

...To me a Christian is someone who sees the character and passion of God on earth as disclosed in the life of Jesus.

I don't really know what that mean's particularly, as it could mean a wide variety of thing's potentially, many of which are fine point's. The bishop's of the Church in communion with the successor of Peter say that a Christian is somebody who believe's that Jesus is the Christ, and who is baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
:e4e:


Daniel

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