Other means something other than Christian.
Do you have to believe in the Trinity to be a Christian?
- Thread starter Bright Raven
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Lon
Well-known member
Er, I don't agree with pastors on all things either but 1) I was educated to know the difference and have that degree 2) it is never over orthodox issues whereas a good many of yours are.
As an example, every pastor I have ever heard says this is talking about putting on loving Christian maturity. If you disagree with that, you are simply being persnickety and petty, imo.
We are not talking about vise, but about what God has begotten (as in 'only'). Totton is correct to insist Godly exclusion concerning the ONLY Begotten, because John 3 absolutely does. Luxury may produce a number of children, of which vise is but one-type of many children, it must be excluded here for precisely that reason.
'Only begotten' accentuates the departure. Your inordinate fighting with Trinitarians becomes fully against the Son. You speak out against Him every day you participate in these threads. All Unitarians will stand before Him one day: John 5:23 1 John 2:23
The one beloved by Jesus, fell at His feet as though dead! Revelation 1:17
Php 2:9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name,
Php 2:10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
Php 2:11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Revelation 5:12-14. This is my LORD you are talking about!
Rev 5:11 Then I looked, and I heard around the throne and the living creatures and the elders the voice of many angels, numbering myriads of myriads and thousands of thousands,
Rev 5:12 saying with a loud voice, "Worthy is the Lamb who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing!"
Rev 5:13 And I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea, and all that is in them, saying, "To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be blessing and honor and glory and might forever and ever!"
Rev 5:14 And the four living creatures said, "Amen!" and the elders fell down and worshiped.
I don't hear 'Worthy is the Lamb to receive glory, honor, wealth, power, and blessing from Unitarians and I certainly don't see them falling down and worshipping Him.
Daqq, I have no desire seeking out what you believe or not believe. If you
were a "True Believer" you'd be happy to give your Testimony.
were a "True Believer" you'd be happy to give your Testimony.
1 Peter 3:15 "But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:"
There's more unbelievers on this forum than, True Believers.
No Testimony Daqq?
Already told you that it is also posted on this site and also already suggested to you that you search my posts if you truly wanted to know. Now you only prove yourself once again nothing more than a slanderer with malicious, unChristian, hateful intent. You are only helping to prove what supposed mainstream modern Christianity has become by claiming the label of a name you know nothing about from what is actually written in the Scripture. Seek and you shall find; otherwise you do not ask what you do except for evil intentions. You claim to be "Christian" but according to the definition I read in the Scripture you and yours are not, and not only that, but not even close.
:sheep:
Already told you that it is also posted on this site and also already suggested to you that you search my posts if you truly wanted to know. Now you only prove yourself once again nothing more than a slanderer with malicious, unChristian, hateful intent. You are only helping to prove what supposed mainstream modern Christianity has become by claiming the label of a name you know nothing about from what is actually written in the Scripture. Seek and you shall find; otherwise you do not ask what you do except for evil intentions. You claim to be "Christian" but according to the definition I read in the Scripture you and yours are not, and not only that, but not even close.
:sheep:
And, of course, you're a 'Unitarian." And, not a member of the Body of Christ, correct?
Incorrect. I am a member of the Body of Messiah.
So why then do you curse the members of Messiah?
You prove yourself what you are by your own judgmental testimony.
Well, my impression of you seems to tell me that, you're some
kind of cultist.
1) You refuse to state what religion, church, or Denomination you're
affiliated with?
2) You refuse to give a personal Testimony of how you got saved?
3) You won't answer reasonably simple questions about your faith?
(if any)
4) You have a fear of disclosing what, "Other" means?
So, It looks as if you are hiding something that has nothing to do with
Christianity? Such as: You belong to a cult, or some form of unorthodox
belief system that other posters around here wouldn't
accept?
In short, I'll venture to guess that, you don't accept the "Grace Message"
(Paul's Gospel) Nor, do you know how to, "Rightly
Divide" the written word, (The Bible) and you don't believe
that a True Believer, hears the Grace Message, places his faith
in Christ alone, is sealed, indwelt and baptized (not by water)
into the Body of Christ, by the Holy Spirit.
Also, you probably don't believe in "OSAS." Nor, anything about
the final judgment and who will be there?
Am I correct? If you agree with me about how to be saved then,
you should be more than happy to offer your Testimony? Are you?
Already told you that it is also posted on this site and also already suggested to you that you search my posts if you truly wanted to know. Now you only prove yourself once again nothing more than a slanderer with malicious, unChristian, hateful intent. You are only helping to prove what supposed mainstream modern Christianity has become by claiming the label of a name you know nothing about from what is actually written in the Scripture. Seek and you shall find; otherwise you do not ask what you do except for evil intentions. You claim to be "Christian" but according to the definition I read in the Scripture you and yours are not, and not only that, but not even close.
:sheep:
Have you read the Bible word for word and cover to cover?
Everything I have highlighted in yellow is now a flat out lie as I have already told you multiple times that you are incorrect. All of those things have been answered and some even here in this very thread. Much of everything else that is not highlighted in yellow has also been touched upon in other posts since arriving here. You simply refuse to read because you have an agenda which has nothing to do with Christianity but rather slandering, labeling, categorizing, and nullifying the voices of anyone else who disagrees with your paradigm. You were better off back in your cave scratching triple dots into the walls; at least then you were receiving all of the attention you so desperately crave:
". . ." ~ http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80630
Uh-huh, yes of course, that's you: afraid to leave behind what you have written. I do not need to erase what I have written so you either need to go searching like was suggested to you or go back to your cave and continue scratching more triple dots into the walls. :crackup:
:sheep:
oatmeal
Well-known member
Grosnick and others like to resort to personal attacks when confronted with scripture.
They do not know scripture enough, (if at all) to be able to discuss scripture.
However, they are renowned at repeating the trinitarian mantras and mud slinging.
I do not know if they could quote a single verse of scripture.
Maybe they can, but it is not evident from the majority of their posts
Jesus Christ had no problem quoting and referring to scripture.
Luke 4:1-30
His knowledge and wisdom and understanding and action of and from scripture made him victorious in every situation.
That is what believers do.
oatmeal
Well-known member
Already explained to you that I answered that question and suggested you search my posts to find it if you really wanted to know. Now here you are in the very thread where I answered showing both your incompetence and the true motive which lurks in the darkness of your heart.
Honor is not worship. Kings were also bowed to, paid respect, given homage, and honored, and that is the same Greek word proskuneo. Kings were also called "Mashiah YHWH", ("Messiah of YHWH") and kings were also anointed as were priests, and kings were also called "Son of God", as was the High Priest, as representatives of the authority of God upon the earth. We also bow to the Father in the name of the Son. You have twisted the meaning of honor to mean absolute worship as Almighty God. In addition you do not honor the Testimony of Yeshua because you worship him as Almighty God while he worships the Father as Almighty God whom he said was greater than himself. You therefore dishonor the Testimony of Yeshua. He is not ashamed to call those willing to become sanctified his brethren. You therefore worship a person you call Father, a person you call the Holy Spirit, and person you call the Son who was not ashamed to call us brethren. You therefore worship your own brother and by default will surely come to see yourself also as God because you claim to have God your brother dwelling in you: and if your Father, and your Holy Spirit, and your brother are all God Almighty, then so too will you eventually come to think similarly of yourself in the recesses of your heart and mind, in self righteous pride, whether you actually realize it or not. You reject the Testimony of Yeshua, whom you claim is Almighty God, and therefore show that you truly do not even worship him because if you did you would hear and believe his Testimony and carry it out in your doctrine, yourself, and your own walk. You worship the leader of the worship service, who stands in the midst of the great congregation, while he himself leads the true congregation in worship to the Father in Spirit and in Truth.
Well said!
Add Romans 1:23 to what they are doing and they are in a lot of hurt!
They cling to their erroneous threeology and their meology instead of the God who sent His son on their behalf. And they basically reject God's word that teaches us who God is, and who Jesus Christ is and everything else that pertains to life and godliness that enables us to partake in the divine nature that has been given to us. II Peter 1:3-4
God has begat us who were dead in trespasses and sins and has given to us of his divine nature by seed. I Peter 1:23, I John 4:13
Having the spirit of God in us does not make us God anymore than the spirit descending upon Jesus makes him God.
However, as you pointed out, we are Jesus' brethren,
Hebrews 2:10-11
For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
God made the captain of our salvation perfect through those things Jesus endured to fulfill God's will for his life.
Jesus is not ashamed to call us his brethren.
Jesus understands the pressures and pleasures used to tempt, but he held fast to God's word instead of succumbing to all the temptations he faced.
These trins like to get under your skin by slander, mud slinging, self exalted opinions.
Oh well, that is their chosen lifestyle and theology and their loss
:thumb: Hi there oatmeal, nice to meet you.
Yep, you quoted the Hebrews passage I was referring to. We also see, in the verse which follows after your quote, that Messiah Yeshua stands in the midst of the great congregation:
Hebrews 2:11-12 KJV
11. For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
12. Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church [congregation] will I sing praise unto thee.
Psalm 22:18-25
18. They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.
19. But be not thou far from me, O YHWH: O my strength, haste thee to help me.
20. Deliver my soul from the sword; my darling from the power of the dog.
21. Save me from the lion's mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.
22. I will declare thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee.
23. Ye that fear YHWH, praise him; all ye the seed of Jacob, glorify him; and fear him, all ye the seed of Israel.
24. For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard.
25. My praise shall be of thee in the great congregation: I will pay my vows before them that fear him.
And those who put themselves and their doctrines by force into the midst of the great congregation likewise put themselves in the place of Messiah and become "antiChristos". The same quickly become known by their fruits.
oatmeal
Well-known member
:thumb: Hi there oatmeal, nice to meet you.
Yep, you quoted the Hebrews passage I was referring to. We also see, in the verse which follows after your quote, that Messiah Yeshua stands in the midst of the great congregation:
Hebrews 2:11-12 KJV
11. For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
12. Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church [congregation] will I sing praise unto thee.
Psalm 22:18-25
18. They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.
19. But be not thou far from me, O YHWH: O my strength, haste thee to help me.
20. Deliver my soul from the sword; my darling from the power of the dog.
21. Save me from the lion's mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.
22. I will declare thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee.
23. Ye that fear YHWH, praise him; all ye the seed of Jacob, glorify him; and fear him, all ye the seed of Israel.
24. For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard.
25. My praise shall be of thee in the great congregation: I will pay my vows before them that fear him.
And those who put themselves and their doctrines by force into the midst of the great congregation likewise put themselves in the place of Messiah and become "antiChristos". The same quickly become known by their fruits.
It is a pleasure to read your posts.
You are one of those who are willing to read scripture for what is says, not for what others say it says.
Thanks for starting there and continuing.
There are so many verses that clarify the distinction between God the Father and His son Jesus Christ that it overwhelming to say the least.
Those verses make it clear that Jesus Christ is subordinate to the Father, even as we are.
Jesus Christ is the son of God is the clear teaching of scripture.
rainee
New member
Hi! And thank you so much for answering me!
Ahh, but now I do feel bad because although your words are lovely -- I think I could so tackily bowl them down like pins in a bowling alley...
And I feel sure you did not do that lovely a job to have that happen...
Oh, please forgive me.
I hate to copy Tot, but if people beget people how does God not beget God?
Sir, this is true of John the Baptist. In fact this is an example of the biggest problem I have with many here I respect in other areas but they do not see for some reason exactly how important all information about John The Baptist is...
So please, remember now, and please tell:
What is different between The Lord and John the Baptist?
The Torah, ah, The Torah!
God's Word given to men He was working with to write down, and then other men who valued these Words sometimes more than their own lives copied carefully, guarded, preserved, passed them on...
But John says He is more than that, doesn't he?
But as you point out, so am I, yes? Just wearing dress, but perhaps the men did back then too!
How would that be? I mean, really, how would that be?
And that, sir, is where we differ.
You say He is not merely human but here your heart tells me that you and I are not merely human, because of the Holy Spirit.
But you know what? I believe I really am merely human. He is not an example of me, IMO.
Ok, but not like Him, to me, sir.
Not sure what that means, he is only and we are also? Is that a contradiction?
True and true to me.
Thank you.I stick by what I wrote. You're a real "Character."
You're a real "Oddball" You don't believe the Bible concerning the Trinity. Well, that's the "limitation of thought" that you're stuck with I guess?
I LOVE herrings, but I prefer the silvery pickled kind to red ones
We know that God created gender.