Do you have to believe in the Trinity to be a Christian?

[genuineoriginal]

Do YOU have a son? what is he a rabbit?

Rabbits beget rabbits
men beget men
God begot God

The term Son of God is synonymous with God, for every son is the same essentially as the father.

Many people would argue that God is a reference to a single divine being instead of thinking that God is merely the name of a species of divine beings.

 

[Bright Raven]

Many people would argue that God is a reference to a single divine being instead of thinking that God is merely the name of a species of divine beings.

Huh?

 

[StanJ]

Huh?

Now THAT is Mormon.

 

[Totton Linnet]

Many people would argue that God is a reference to a single divine being instead of thinking that God is merely the name of a species of divine beings.

The Lord our God is one, but how ordered He is, both in the natural world and in the spiritual realm We BELIEVE that Father Son and Holy Ghost is one God....and believing we have peace.

 

[StanJ]

I then have to ask you how you yourself suppose you might have said how YOU see the activity of "knowing and accept[ing] our God and Savior."
How is it that you know and accept "our God and Savior"?

Rom 10:9-11 among others. I believe and accept the written Word of God (BIBLE) as inerrant and God breathed.

Is it a matter of merely giving your assent to a list of ancient theological concepts like "Son of God," "Messaih," "born of a virgin," etc.?

No, it is ACCEPTING, by faith, the Bible.

And how is it you are able to guess at the motives or deem another's beliefs as wrong? Especially by confronting them on an Internet website?

Experience and 45 years of being in the faith.

Next time you might just declare you are sharing your own conjectures and beliefs instead of immediately judging and labeling another person to denounce them out of hand.

They are not MY conjectures, they are God's word. I realize you don't SEE a difference, but there is. I don't usually denounce anyone out of hand, but on TOL there are MANY false teaches and heretics. It seems to attract them?

As for being a credentialed scholar--no. I guess I am more a "blue collar scholar" lucky enough to live in a time when many credentialed scholars are finally letting the public in on what they have studied their entire lives.

Well that Bible in many different formats, has been easily available since the 1950s at least. I was saved in 1971 and there was NO internet, but plenty of material to study.

I stand on the shoulders of giants. And these researchers have put out their conclusions for public and peer review and are unafraid to follow the truth wherever it leads them. They are all cognizant of ancient languages, ancient customs, first-century politics, economics, religious matters, and cultural contexts. They are truly opening up a wholly new phase in the study of Jesus.

I stand on God's word, but even so, show your so called sources, because you admit you are NOT credentialed. They may be but that would be up to you to corroborate.

Although many of these scholars are committed Christians, Jews and even Muslims they still follow the scientific methodology of historical study and do not usually let their personal beliefs interfere with an objective look at history.

Hate to break it to you, but ALL scientists have bias. I'm talking about credentialed Greek scholars here.

I grew up with belief. My parents were both religious and I was steeped in personal and community beliefs because that's just the way I was raised. I began to explore the true sense of biblical study when I began to try and understand the motive and original meaning behind the Bible.

When properly translated, the Bible IS clear. There is no hidden meaning, only people that purport hidden agendas. God's agenda has been out in the open since day one of creation.

That was probably when I began to journey on a different path. I became obsessed with honest data, real evidence and real facts that provide the necessary context for studying Scripture.

If you start from a perspective that the date you do have is corrupt then you are stating on the wrong foot. God tells us His word is true and that He keeps and protects His word. If you don't start a faith walk IN faith then you'll never get TO faith.

 

[Lon]

I began to explore the true sense of biblical study when I began to try and understand the motive and original meaning behind the Bible.

Yes, that is the point where your journey started on the higher criticism path. You've described it rightly.

That was probably when I began to journey on a different path. I became obsessed with honest data, real evidence and real facts that provide the necessary context for studying Scripture.

Confirmation bias IS finding that what we thoughts fit our previous assumption. Confirmation bias is not always wrong, but it isn't the 'best' form of study and inquiry (if it was lucky enough to find the truth the first time). It is indeed part of the scientific method. A lot of people on TOL are 'stop' and so are stuck in confirmation bias. I am very entrenched on this particular issue of Jesus' divinity.
I believe scripture demands it. I am somewhat 'open' to correction but it has never came in any sufficient manner. Some of those who oppose the Triune view are bias confirmed. They are in greater danger and self-willed. I love a few of the others who listen and pay attention to the 99 others against them. Those ones I have a lot of love, time, patience, and concern for.

 

[oatmeal]

...that we might receive the adoption of sons....

You were not begotten of God, there has only ever been one Begotten of God. You were not conceived in a virgin's womb.

I do not believe you have yet received the Spirit of adoption, you have no knowledge of the Holy Spirit, nor do you know the true Christ.

If Christ were in you you would know Him as He is, we would be of the same family.

Totton,

Should you ever want to learn scripture so that you can base your beliefs on scripture, rather than the doctrines of men, let me know.

James 1:18

Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

1 Peter 1:3

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

1 John 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

1 John 5:18

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

 

[Lon]

Totton,

Should you ever want to learn scripture so that you can base your beliefs on scripture, rather than the doctrines of men, let me know.

IOW "Forget the 997 out of one thousand, follow me, Oatmeal, because I'm BRILLIANT!"

lain:

And you want her to follow you as if you are the 1 of 3 in a thousand that is the 'smart' one? Are you serious? Do you really even think this about yourself ? I know you do but wanted you to see my questioning it and see it for the audacity it is. I hope you can't believe yourself but you and all the other Unitarians seem exactly this arrogant and self-infatuated, and so probably can't actually see it. I was concerned and timid when I got an answer different (OFTEN different means wrong when it comes to logic) than the rest of the Algebra class. You guys are weird).

 

[oatmeal]

IOW "Forget the 997 out of one thousand, follow me, Oatmeal, because I'm BRILLIANT!"

lain:

And you want her to follow you as if you are the 1 of 3 in a thousand that is the 'smart' one? Are you serious? Do you really even think this about yourself ? I know you do but wanted you to see my questioning it and see it for the audacity it is. I hope you can't believe yourself but you and all the other Unitarians seem exactly this arrogant and self-infatuated, and so probably can't actually see it. I was concerned and timid when I got an answer different (OFTEN different means wrong when it comes to logic) than the rest of the Algebra class. You guys are weird).

So Lon,

Did you read her post that I replied to?

Evidently not.

If she was familiar with the concept of needing to be born again she would realize that you must be born again, well, at least according to Jesus Christ.

Jesus did not say, "Ye must be adopted"

He said, "ye must be born again"

John 3:3,7

For that matter, Jesus did not say, "ye must believe in the trinity"

Jesus did say, "ye must be born again"

 

[Lon]

So Lon,

Did you read her post that I replied to?

Evidently not.

If she was familiar with the concept of needing to be born again she would realize that you must be born again, well, at least according to Jesus Christ.

Jesus did not say, "Ye must be adopted"

He said, "ye must be born again"

John 3:3,7

For that matter, Jesus did not say, "ye must believe in the trinity"

Jesus did say, "ye must be born again"

But it isn't a command. Nicodemus understood it that way, "How can a man do that!?" but that was incorrect.

It isn't a command. It is what 'must happen' but it is not within man's ability to 'make' it happen. You and I cannot 'be born again' by our efforts/doing. It isn't possible. Nor is walking through the eye of a needle. Luke 18:27

You are still worried about your hoard of nuts rather than understanding the larger issue of your divergence with us on most other important matters. You guys get caught up in distraction on things you 'may' be right about without seeing the larger picture you are wrong about.

 

[Totton Linnet]

So Lon,

Did you read her post that I replied to?

Evidently not.

If she was familiar with the concept of needing to be born again she would realize that you must be born again, well, at least according to Jesus Christ.

Jesus did not say, "Ye must be adopted"

He said, "ye must be born again"

John 3:3,7

For that matter, Jesus did not say, "ye must believe in the trinity"

Jesus did say, "ye must be born again"

Yes we are begotten again....Christ was begotten, the only begotten of God. We are begotten again when we receive the Spirit of adoption and our heart cries Abba Father.

This is another instance where you zero on one scripture truth only and ignore plenty others.

Nor have you received that Spirit......if you had you would never, ever refer to Him as "it"...you would never, ever speak about using "it"

Nor will He teach you scripture....

 

[Totton Linnet]

Many people would argue that God is a reference to a single divine being instead of thinking that God is merely the name of a species of divine beings.

God is une....triune

 

[oatmeal]

But it isn't a command. Nicodemus understood it that way, "How can a man do that!?" but that was incorrect.

It isn't a command. It is what 'must happen' but it is not within man's ability to 'make' it happen. You and I cannot 'be born again' by our efforts/doing. It isn't possible. Nor is walking through the eye of a needle. Luke 18:27

You are still worried about your hoard of nuts rather than understanding the larger issue of your divergence with us on most other important matters. You guys get caught up in distraction on things you 'may' be right about without seeing the larger picture you are wrong about.

So, for you it is an option?

Just another item on a menu?

You will have to decide whether you want to "see the kingdom of God" or not.

John 3:3

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Note, that Jesus uses the words "Verily, verily" not "oh, by the way, this is no big deal but just so we can have a conversation that will fit nice after John 2, I thought I bring in some trivia"

You minimalize the words of Jesus Christ so that you can continue in your tradition instead of seeing the kingdom of God.

Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

 

[Totton Linnet]

Christ is the Begotten, the only Begotten...we are begotten again...got it now?

We could only be begotten again because He was Begotten, being begotten again involves dying with His dying, being buried in the burial with which He was buried and being raised to newness of life with the resurrection wherewith He was raised.

Incidently if God were not triune the death, burial and resurrection would be quite impossible.

...these things we have and are.

 

[oatmeal]

Yes we are begotten again....Christ was begotten, the only begotten of God. We are begotten again when we receive the Spirit of adoption and our heart cries Abba Father.

This is another instance where you zero on one scripture truth only and ignore plenty others.

Nor have you received that Spirit......if you had you would never, ever refer to Him as "it"...you would never, ever speak about using "it"

Nor will He teach you scripture....

See how nice it is to learn scripture!

You just renewed your mind a little! Congratulations!

I am born again of incorruptible seed. I Peter 1:23

(as are all believers in this age of grace)

You do not adopt your own children, because they are already your children. Adoption means you take in someone who is someone else's child.

the KJV translates a word that should have been translated "sonship" and translates it "adoption" thus the average reader misses out on the full realization that we are sons by seed, not adoption.

That is what being born again means, John 3:3,7 that is what John 3:16 is about.

If you don't like those scriptures that teach that believers are sons of God by seed, not incorruptible seed from your parents, but incorruptible from God, that is your choice.

However, as Jesus stated, unless a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Evidently, you and Lon have no interest in the kingdom of God.

That is your loss, for not seeing the kingdom of God makes you fully incompetent in spiritual truths, fully incompetent in spiritual understanding.

Jesus did not teach, "ye must believe in the trinity"

He taught, ye must be born again, for unless you are born again, you cannot see the kingdom of God

When you and Lon decide that scripture is important, then you will have something to offer.

 

[Totton Linnet]

I see it hasn't sunk in

Christ is the Begotten of God, the only Begotten...we are begotten again.

 

[Man.0]

If one believes in the trinity, that's a clear sign that they're deluded and deceived, led astray by a devilish doctrine. A genuine Christian would neither defend nor support the idea of the trinity.

 

[Tambora]

If one believes in the trinity, that's a clear sign that they're deluded and deceived, led astray by a devilish doctrine. A genuine Christian would neither defend nor support the idea of the trinity.

False.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

If one believes in the trinity, that's a clear sign that they're deluded and deceived, led astray by a devilish doctrine. A genuine Christian would neither defend nor support the idea of the trinity.

So says another ignorant, "Other." Congratulations, your IQ fits your shoe size.

 

[Man.0]

False.

Now there's a reply that has substance!

So says another ignorant, "Other." Congratulations, your IQ fits your shoe size.

Ignorant of what, might I ask?