Do you have to believe in the Trinity to be a Christian?

Grosnick Marowbe

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Never, never, never take ANYONE's comment here for granted.

Instead of blaming the messenger or falling back into belief, check out the actual HISTORY of out Christian tradition.

Become curious and try to cultivate wide-ranging reading skills. Use what you have discovered and by all means, have back at me! Don't you find it curious that most Christians turn away from evidence, real data and facts?

What might be the problem--in your opinion--why this is so?

All the intermediate reader of the New Testament needs to do is to line up Matthew and Luke's birth and infancy narratives side by side and make careful note of what you find.

If you are unable to actually do this, then just admit to that instead of judging the worth of something and condemning it out of hand.

Be honest at least.

Should we seek out their shoe sizes as well?
 

genuineoriginal

New member
To me it seemed to be an attempt to explain Matthew and Luke's historical and theological errors and discrepancies by blaming the Jews.

Is that what you yourself got out of it?

No, I didn't get any sense that Lightfoot believed there were historical or theological errors and discripancies in Matthew and Luke, although he did write about the historical discrepancies he found in the Talmud that related to his examination of the Gospels.
 

Grosnick Marowbe

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Let's all be clear and honest. Concepts like the Trinity, the virgin birth, messiah, the divinity of Jesus are all nothing more or less than ancient theological terms or phrases that were applied to Jesus' life AFTER HIS DEATH. They are all faith statements and do not reflect biographical or historical facts.

Again (*sigh*) the gospel accounts were all written some 40 to 60 years following the crucifixion. Like it or not, we do not possess the original texts. The earliest bit of gospel we have right now is only a tiny fragment from the Gospel of John dated to the Fourth Century or earlier.

I do not mean to be either disruptive or blasphemous with this information. Any first-year student of the New Testament is exposed to these facts. The point that most traditional believers have either not heard of this--or else the information has been deliberately kept from them--probably accounts for the alarm and defensiveness provoked by such evidence.

A major mistake was made during the last 30 years or so, in my view. The Jesuit Seminar was a group of scholars who collected all of the sayings of Jesus from the New Testament and elsewhere. The mistake and problem comes from the fact that they published their results out in the open and many folks learned of them from the media--in my opinion of course.


So, you don't take into account the inspiration of the Holy Spirit
in the writings of Scripture? Sounds as if you're promoting a
posture of doubt about the written word of God?
 

genuineoriginal

New member
So you do not have to understand who God is to be saved by Him?
The Bible is very clear about the need to believe the Father is God.
The Bible is very clear about the need to believe that Jesus is the Son of God.

The Bible is silent regarding any need to believe that Jesus and the Father are one God in three persons.

Do you have any real reason for not following that example that was set forth by the writers of the New Testament under the direction of the Holy Spirit?
 

Grosnick Marowbe

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My path to God's Grace started from a question I asked when I
was twelve years old. I asked my Mother: "Are we going to Hell?"

God led me to the answer, shortly thereafter.
 

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
The Bible is very clear about the need to believe the Father is God.
The Bible is very clear about the need to believe that Jesus is the Son of God.

The Bible is silent regarding any need to believe that Jesus and the Father are one God in three persons.

Do you have any real reason for not following that example that was set forth by the writers of the New Testament under the direction of the Holy Spirit?

Have you read the entire Bible, word for word?
 

Bright Raven

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LIFETIME MEMBER
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The Bible is very clear about the need to believe the Father is God.
The Bible is very clear about the need to believe that Jesus is the Son of God.

The Bible is silent regarding any need to believe that Jesus and the Father are one God in three persons.

Do you have any real reason for not following that example that was set forth by the writers of the New Testament under the direction of the Holy Spirit?

Do you believe that in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth? If so do you believe;

Colossians 1:16-20 Modern English Version (MEV)

16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they are thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers. All things were created by Him and for Him. 17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. 18 He is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that in all things He may have the preeminence. 19 For it pleased the Father that in Him all fullness should dwell, 20 and to reconcile all things to Himself by Him, having made peace through the blood of His cross, by Him, I say—whether they are things in earth, or things in heaven.
 

genuineoriginal

New member
Do you believe that in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth? If so do you believe;

Colossians 1:16-20 Modern English Version (MEV)

16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they are thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers. All things were created by Him and for Him. 17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. 18 He is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that in all things He may have the preeminence. 19 For it pleased the Father that in Him all fullness should dwell, 20 and to reconcile all things to Himself by Him, having made peace through the blood of His cross, by Him, I say—whether they are things in earth, or things in heaven.
Do you believe these verses?

Colossians 1:12-13
12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:​

 

genuineoriginal

New member
Is G.O. a Unitarian?
Why do you ask?
Unitarians don't believe there's a Trinity.
If Unitarians believed in the Trinity, they would be Trinitarians.
They also don't believe in the divinity of Christ.
That is debatable.
Some Unitarians believe in the divinity of Jesus, others do not.
It would be unfair to label them all with such broad statements without trying to understand the fundamentals of their beliefs.
Are you a Unitarian, G.O.?
Again, why do you ask?
 

Bright Raven

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LIFETIME MEMBER
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Do you believe these verses?

Colossians 1:12-13
12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:​


I asked you first. Do you believe that Jesus created all things in heaven and on earth
 

Grosnick Marowbe

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Hall of Fame
We're living in, what Paul calls, "The Dispensation of Grace." Paul says
that someday the secrets of men will be judged by "his Gospel."
 
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