Do some of the Scriptural Truths offend you?

[Nick M]

God has to draw people to Jesus … John 6:44

Actually he said he WILL draw to himself.

No, nothing in scripture is offensive to me. If anything, I might take the position of "They are even worse than me" when reading of "Old Testament" Saints. Or the "New Testament", come to think of it.

 

[Dougcho]

Maybe the answer to the confusion is that it is impossible to draw such a distinct line as you are drawing. And I'm not opposed to your premise, that the name of Jesus is intended to refer to the person who is both God and man. I just don't see where it is necessary. If Jesus is the name applied to the Word once He was incarnate, fine, but His existence is from eternity, not from conception. He was in the beginning with the Father.
I'd even go so far as to suggest that He was not the begotten Son until He was conceived in Mary (i.e., until He was actually begotten). But what point does that require? What difference does it make for you?

I'm just trying to point out that Jesus Christ, who was fully man ad fully God,
was NOT in heaven with the Father in the beginning!
To say so is totally ridiculous.

Jesus Chris was "created" on one particular day by the Holy Spirit,
and some time later the Word became flesh-human-Jesus.
While still in Mary's womb, or after He was born?
We are not told, but I believe I was told t'was the latter.

 

[Derf]

I'm just trying to point out that Jesus Christ, who was fully man ad fully God,
was NOT in heaven with the Father in the beginning!
To say so is totally ridiculous.

Jesus Chris was "created" on one particular day by the Holy Spirit,
and some time later the Word became flesh-human-Jesus.
While still in Mary's womb, or after He was born?
We are not told, but I believe I was told t'was the latter.

But what difference does it make to your position on anything else? Does it help resolve some other conflict or seeming paradox?

 

[Clete]

I'm just trying to point out that Jesus Christ, who was fully man ad fully God,
was NOT in heaven with the Father in the beginning!
To say so is totally ridiculous.

Jesus Chris was "created" on one particular day by the Holy Spirit,
and some time later the Word became flesh-human-Jesus.
While still in Mary's womb, or after He was born?
We are not told, but I believe I was told t'was the latter.

Why do you suppose that John the Baptist, while he was still in the womb, leaped for joy when Mary who was pregnant with Jesus came close?

Luke 1:41 And it happened, when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, that the babe leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. 42 Then she spoke out with a loud voice and said, “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! 43 But why is this granted to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? 44 For indeed, as soon as the voice of your greeting sounded in my ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy.​

​

I'm telling you Doug, this doctrine of yours is weird. It is just not biblical at all and, in fact, it betrays a somewhat gross (i.e. wholesale) ignorance of the bible. It neither makes any logical sense nor does it appear to have any practical application. WHY OH WHY do you believe it?

 

[Derf]

I'm just trying to point out that Jesus Christ, who was fully man ad fully God,
was NOT in heaven with the Father in the beginning!
To say so is totally ridiculous.

Jesus Chris was "created" on one particular day by the Holy Spirit,
and some time later the Word became flesh-human-Jesus.
While still in Mary's womb, or after He was born?
We are not told, but I believe I was told t'was the latter.

What do you make of this passage? Do the words "he" and "him" apply to Jesus Christ?
Colossians 1:13-20 KJV — Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

 

[JudgeRightly]

I'm just trying to point out that Jesus Christ, who was fully man ad fully God,
was NOT in heaven with the Father in the beginning!

Yes, He was.

To say so is totally ridiculous.

You're the totally ridiculous one here.

Jesus Chris was "created" on one particular day by the Holy Spirit,
and some time later the Word became flesh-human-Jesus.
While still in Mary's womb, or after He was born?
We are not told, but I believe I was told t'was the latter.

You're going against Scripture at this point, with Jesus Himself, specifically:

And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

Bible Gateway passage: John 17:5 - New King James Version

And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

www.biblegateway.com

Jesus is not a created being.

His physical body? Sure. But He Himself was not.

 

[Nick M]

I'm just trying to point out that Jesus Christ, who was fully man ad fully God,
was NOT in heaven with the Father in the beginning!

If you reject the New Testament, which it seems you do, why do you call him God?

1In the beginning was the Logos (logic and reason), and the Logos was with God, and the Logos was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God....14 And the Logos became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

 

[Dougcho]

I'm telling you Doug, this doctrine of yours is weird.
It is just not biblical at all and, in fact, it betrays a somewhat gross (i.e. wholesale) ignorance of the bible.
It neither makes any logical sense nor does it appear to have any practical application.
WHY OH WHY do you believe it?

I believe it simply because it is all Scriptural.
How about proving one or more parts of it is not Scriptural.

 

[Dougcho]

1 In the beginning was the Logos (logic and reason), and the Logos was with God, and the Logos was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God....14 And the Logos became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

Most translations call the Logos ... the Word.
Would thou carest to show where I disagree with the above quote of John 1:1-14?
News Flash ... the God part of Jesus Christ, which was the Logos, the Word,
was with Father God in the beginning.
It's quite a shame that people like you cannot understand
what others write in plain and simple English.
I could explain WHY this is so ...
but you and many others would be tremendously upset!

 

[Clete]

I believe it simply because it is all Scriptural.
How about proving one or more parts of it is not Scriptural.

I just did! I mean I just did precisely that in the exact same post you just quoted from!

Are you just playing idiotic games here or what?

Last chance Doug. If you want me to take you even a little tiny bit seriously then you'll respond to the scriptures that I and others have already presented to you.


Prediction: Doug here would rather be ignored than to have an actual, substantive, two way conversation. (I honestly hope that I'm wrong!)

 

[Nick M]

Most translations call the Logos ... the Word.

And? Do you know what the word Logos in Greek means?

 

[Dougcho]

Jesus is not a created being.
His physical body? Sure. But He Himself was not.

Matthew, Luke, and John clearly tell us:
GOD the Holy Spirit miraculously created a fetus in Mary's womb.
Gabriel told Mary to call this baby "Jesus", and the Son of God.
Jesus was born of Mary (with an inherited sinful nature) ...
and thus He was fully man.
Then at some point, GOD the Word became Jesus.
And thus Jesus was also fully GOD.

"He Himself" >>> Jesus Christ was the only GOD-man ever created.
And He was called "the Son of God" simply because ...
GOD the Holy Spirit was His father (or played the role of His father).

 

[Clete]

Matthew, Luke, and John clearly tell us:
GOD the Holy Spirit miraculously created a fetus in Mary's womb.
Gabriel told Mary to call this baby "Jesus", and the Son of God.
Jesus was born of Mary (with an inherited sinful nature) ...
and thus He was fully man.
Then at some point, GOD the Word became Jesus.
And thus Jesus was also fully GOD.

"He Himself" >>> Jesus Christ was the only GOD-man ever created.
And He was called "the Son of God" simply because ...
GOD the Holy Spirit was His father (or played the role of His father).

This is outright heresy to the point of nearly being blasphemy.

Being born with a sin nature is not endemic to being a human. If Jesus was born with a sin nature then there was no need for Him to have been born a virgin. The whole point of the virgin birth was that sin passes through the father.

Look, just go believe whatever you want. You're clearly not here to have discussions, much less debate anything.

Goodbye!

 

[JudgeRightly]

Matthew, Luke, and John clearly tell us:

They tell us that Jesus is God, the Logos, the second person of the Triune Godhead.

GOD the Holy Spirit miraculously created a fetus in Mary's womb.

Yes.

Gabriel told Mary to call this baby "Jesus", and the Son of God.

Yes.

Jesus was born of Mary

Yes.

(with an inherited sinful nature) ...

NO!

Jesus was born with a HUMAN nature, not a sin nature!

and thus He was fully man.

He was fully man because He became one, Doug!

Then at some point, GOD the Word became Jesus.

Are you @keypurr, Doug?

There is no fourth person of the Trinity, Doug.

John 1 is explicitly clear:

The Logos (God the Son) was with and was God, He was the One who created, all things were made through Him. He BECAME FLESH. He dwelt among men.

The Greek text says "He tabernacled among us."

In other words: He put on a tent made of flesh.

He is the one who was conceived in Mary's womb.

And thus Jesus was also fully GOD.

There is no fourth person of the Trinity.

There is ONE GOD. Jesus is God.

"He Himself" >>> Jesus Christ was the only GOD-man ever created.

Again, you're going against scripture, and Jesus Himself. Did you not bother to read the verse I quoted?

Jesus said "the glory I had with [the Father] before the world began."

Meaning He was not a "created being."

And He was called "the Son of God" simply because ...
GOD the Holy Spirit was His father (or played the role of His father).

I ought to give you an infraction for this.

This is damnable heresy, Doug.

The Holy Spirit is NOT Jesus' Father. You need to repent of this belief.

God the Father is Jesus' father, because Jesus IS the Logos, the Son of God.

Deity of Christ Bible Verses: A Different Approach | KGOV.com

kgov.com

 

[Dougcho]

I won't waste my time explaining all of this further.

BTW ...
Years ago, a British lady doctor told me (via e-mail) that
all babies inherit the DNA of BOTH parents!
So, this is why I believe that Jesus inherited the sin nature from Mary.

The NT says that Jesus was in all points the same as we are
(i.e. having a sin nature, etc.), but He did not sin.

Now, I suppose I will be asked to provide the verse(s).
To which I will respond by offering to send a NT to anyone
who requests one ... then, they can read the Truth for themselves.

 

[Clete]

I won't waste my time explaining all of this further.

BTW ...
Years ago, a British lady doctor told me (via e-mail) that
all babies inherit the DNA of BOTH parents!
So, this is why I believe that Jesus inherited the sin nature from Mary.

So your doctrine in based on the statement of a British doctor about something that no one, regardless of what they believe about where the sin nature comes from, disagrees with.

Brilliant! (As the Brittish like say!)

The NT says that Jesus was in all points the same as we are
(i.e. having a sin nature, etc.), but He did not sin.

This is blasphemy Doug!

Jesus is GOD IN THE FLESH!!!!! No sin ever touched Him. He spent three days dead in the grave. If He had a sin nature He would have stunk to high heaven by the time He rose from the dead but, because He did not have a sin nature,His flesh did not see corruption.

Acts 2:31 he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption.​

Now, I suppose I will be asked to provide the verse(s).
To which I will respond by offering to send a NT to anyone
who requests one ... then, they can read the Truth for themselves.

This is proof that you're just as ignorant as you sound. If you had something more than a random doctor from Britain who said something completely obvious and that is not in dispute, then wild horses couldn't pull you away from your keyboard fast enough to keep you from posting them here.

I've started a new thread on this specific topic....

Is the Sin Nature Inherited Through the Father?​