Do some of the Scriptural Truths offend you?

[Nick M]

God has to draw people to Jesus … John 6:44

Actually he said he WILL draw to himself.

No, nothing in scripture is offensive to me. If anything, I might take the position of "They are even worse than me" when reading of "Old Testament" Saints. Or the "New Testament", come to think of it.

 

[Dougcho]

Maybe the answer to the confusion is that it is impossible to draw such a distinct line as you are drawing. And I'm not opposed to your premise, that the name of Jesus is intended to refer to the person who is both God and man. I just don't see where it is necessary. If Jesus is the name applied to the Word once He was incarnate, fine, but His existence is from eternity, not from conception. He was in the beginning with the Father.
I'd even go so far as to suggest that He was not the begotten Son until He was conceived in Mary (i.e., until He was actually begotten). But what point does that require? What difference does it make for you?

I'm just trying to point out that Jesus Christ, who was fully man ad fully God,
was NOT in heaven with the Father in the beginning!
To say so is totally ridiculous.

Jesus Chris was "created" on one particular day by the Holy Spirit,
and some time later the Word became flesh-human-Jesus.
While still in Mary's womb, or after He was born?
We are not told, but I believe I was told t'was the latter.

 

[Derf]

I'm just trying to point out that Jesus Christ, who was fully man ad fully God,
was NOT in heaven with the Father in the beginning!
To say so is totally ridiculous.

Jesus Chris was "created" on one particular day by the Holy Spirit,
and some time later the Word became flesh-human-Jesus.
While still in Mary's womb, or after He was born?
We are not told, but I believe I was told t'was the latter.

But what difference does it make to your position on anything else? Does it help resolve some other conflict or seeming paradox?

 

[Clete]

I'm just trying to point out that Jesus Christ, who was fully man ad fully God,
was NOT in heaven with the Father in the beginning!
To say so is totally ridiculous.

Jesus Chris was "created" on one particular day by the Holy Spirit,
and some time later the Word became flesh-human-Jesus.
While still in Mary's womb, or after He was born?
We are not told, but I believe I was told t'was the latter.

Why do you suppose that John the Baptist, while he was still in the womb, leaped for joy when Mary who was pregnant with Jesus came close?

Luke 1:41 And it happened, when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, that the babe leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. 42 Then she spoke out with a loud voice and said, “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! 43 But why is this granted to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? 44 For indeed, as soon as the voice of your greeting sounded in my ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy.​

​

I'm telling you Doug, this doctrine of yours is weird. It is just not biblical at all and, in fact, it betrays a somewhat gross (i.e. wholesale) ignorance of the bible. It neither makes any logical sense nor does it appear to have any practical application. WHY OH WHY do you believe it?

 

[Derf]

I'm just trying to point out that Jesus Christ, who was fully man ad fully God,
was NOT in heaven with the Father in the beginning!
To say so is totally ridiculous.

Jesus Chris was "created" on one particular day by the Holy Spirit,
and some time later the Word became flesh-human-Jesus.
While still in Mary's womb, or after He was born?
We are not told, but I believe I was told t'was the latter.

What do you make of this passage? Do the words "he" and "him" apply to Jesus Christ?
Colossians 1:13-20 KJV — Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

 

[JudgeRightly]

I'm just trying to point out that Jesus Christ, who was fully man ad fully God,
was NOT in heaven with the Father in the beginning!

Yes, He was.

To say so is totally ridiculous.

You're the totally ridiculous one here.

Jesus Chris was "created" on one particular day by the Holy Spirit,
and some time later the Word became flesh-human-Jesus.
While still in Mary's womb, or after He was born?
We are not told, but I believe I was told t'was the latter.

You're going against Scripture at this point, with Jesus Himself, specifically:

And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

Bible Gateway passage: John 17:5 - New King James Version

And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

www.biblegateway.com

Jesus is not a created being.

His physical body? Sure. But He Himself was not.

 

[Nick M]

I'm just trying to point out that Jesus Christ, who was fully man ad fully God,
was NOT in heaven with the Father in the beginning!

If you reject the New Testament, which it seems you do, why do you call him God?

1In the beginning was the Logos (logic and reason), and the Logos was with God, and the Logos was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God....14 And the Logos became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

 

[Dougcho]

I'm telling you Doug, this doctrine of yours is weird.
It is just not biblical at all and, in fact, it betrays a somewhat gross (i.e. wholesale) ignorance of the bible.
It neither makes any logical sense nor does it appear to have any practical application.
WHY OH WHY do you believe it?

I believe it simply because it is all Scriptural.
How about proving one or more parts of it is not Scriptural.

 

[Dougcho]

1 In the beginning was the Logos (logic and reason), and the Logos was with God, and the Logos was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God....14 And the Logos became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

Most translations call the Logos ... the Word.
Would thou carest to show where I disagree with the above quote of John 1:1-14?
News Flash ... the God part of Jesus Christ, which was the Logos, the Word,
was with Father God in the beginning.
It's quite a shame that people like you cannot understand
what others write in plain and simple English.
I could explain WHY this is so ...
but you and many others would be tremendously upset!

 

[Clete]

I believe it simply because it is all Scriptural.
How about proving one or more parts of it is not Scriptural.

I just did! I mean I just did precisely that in the exact same post you just quoted from!

Are you just playing idiotic games here or what?

Last chance Doug. If you want me to take you even a little tiny bit seriously then you'll respond to the scriptures that I and others have already presented to you.


Prediction: Doug here would rather be ignored than to have an actual, substantive, two way conversation. (I honestly hope that I'm wrong!)

 

[Nick M]

Most translations call the Logos ... the Word.

And? Do you know what the word Logos in Greek means?