Discussion thread for AMR and God's Truth Trinity Debate.

[God's Truth]

No, Trinitarian doctrine does not teach separate beings, but only one Being who is GOD by nature. It does teach 'personal' distinctions but not separate being, substance or essence.

You betray, by your affirmations, your ignorance of what Trinitarians actually believe.


Nicene Creed


"I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds; God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God; begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made.

Who, for us men for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the virgin Mary, and was made man; and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate; He suffered and was buried; and the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures; and ascended into heaven, and sits on the right hand of the Father; and He shall come again, with glory, to judge the quick and the dead; whose kingdom shall have no end.

And I believe in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of Life; who proceeds from the Father [and the Son]; who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; who spoke by the prophets.

And I believe one holy catholic and apostolic Church. I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins; and I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen."






Chalcedonian Creed

"We, then, following the holy Fathers, all with one consent, teach men to confess one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, the same perfect in Godhead and also perfect in manhood; truly God and truly man, of a reasonable [rational] soul and body; consubstantial [co-essential] with the Father according to the Godhead, and consubstantial with us according to the Manhood; in all things like unto us, without sin; begotten before all ages of the Father according to the Godhead, and in these latter days, for us and for our salvation, born of the Virgin Mary, the Mother of God, according to the Manhood; one and the same Christ, Son, Lord, only begotten, to be acknowledged in two natures, inconfusedly, unchangeably, indivisibly, inseparably; the distinction of natures being by no means taken away by the union, but rather the property of each nature being preserved, and concurring in one Person and one Subsistence, not parted or divided into two persons, but one and the same Son, and only begotten, God the Word, the Lord Jesus Christ; as the prophets from the beginning [have declared] concerning Him, and the Lord Jesus Christ Himself has taught us, and the Creed of the holy Fathers has handed down to us."

You are wrong. The trinity doctrine does teach that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are separate and distinct. Please do not throw into the debate error about the trinity doctrine.

This is where you need AMR. AMR is the only trinitarian here who seems to know what the trinity doctrine is; he plainly states that it says it is UNEXPLAINABLE, and that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is SEPARATE, and DISTINCT.

Distinct means different, as you probably are well aware.

 

[glorydaz]

And I am guessing the first line of the BIBLE wont stop this debate either?

In the Beginning GOD.
?

Us...our...with....was (plurality).

Gen. 1:26
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.


John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.​

 

[Bright Raven]

Meshak, Thanks but no thanks. I know what I believe. I don't need to debate it. The first thing that would be difficult is your acceptance of the NWT Bible which changed the accepted translations of scripture.

 

[meshak]

never mind.

 

[meshak]

Meshak, Thanks but no thanks. I know what I believe. I don't need to debate it. The first thing that would be difficult is your acceptance of the NWT Bible which changed the accepted translations of scripture.

I don't need to debate either. Did you notice that I hardly debate?

But I will take all opportunity to the world explaining what we see in the world is not true Christianity.

 

[Bright Raven]

You are wrong. The trinity doctrine does teach that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are separate and distinct. Please do not throw into the debate error about the trinity doctrine.

This is where you need AMR. AMR is the only trinitarian here who seems to know what the trinity doctrine is; he plainly states that it says it is UNEXPLAINABLE, and that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is SEPARATE, and DISTINCT.

Distinct means different, as you probably are well aware.

You are not even in the debate thread. The trinity is explainable or you would not be having this debate. Whether or not it is understandable to you or not is another question.

 

[glorydaz]

You are wrong. The trinity doctrine does teach that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are separate and distinct. Please do not throw into the debate error about the trinity doctrine.

This is where you need AMR. AMR is the only trinitarian here who seems to know what the trinity doctrine is; he plainly states the that is says it is UNEXPLAINABLE, and that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is SEPARATE, and DISTINCT.

Distinct means different, as you probably are well aware.

AMR says separate? They certainly are distinct as you, yourself have used the term "three" and "they". Those terms demand distinction of some kind.

 

[Bright Raven]

AMR says separate? They certainly are distinct as you, yourself have used the term "three" and "they". Those terms demand distinction of some kind.

YES!

 

[God's Truth]

AMR says separate? They certainly are distinct as you, yourself have used the term "three" and "they". Those terms demand distinction of some kind.

AMR says what the trinity doctrine says...that they are separate and distinct.

They are not distinct, which means different.

God came in the flesh, as a Son of Man, a Son of God.

Jesus only did what God did, and only spoke what God said. They are inseparable---NOT SEPARATE. They are the same---not different.

John 16:13-14; John 5:19; John 8:28; John 12:49; and, John 12:50.

 

[glorydaz]

But when he gets his spiritual body, will it be legless?

You basically moved the timing of the issue while dodging the meat of the question. Nice work.

I don't think he'll be legless nor will Anne Boleyn be headlesss. :chuckle:

 

[steko]

You are wrong. The trinity doctrine does teach that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are separate and distinct. Please do not throw into the debate error about the trinity doctrine.

I just showed you foundational statements of Trinitarian beliefs.

This is where you need AMR. AMR is the only trinitarian here who seems to know what the trinity doctrine is; he plainly states that it says it is UNEXPLAINABLE, and that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is SEPARATE, and DISTINCT.

No, while it is true that AMR is credentialed, very articulate, uses classical debate techniques very well and is an able defender, he is not the only one here who understands Trinitarian doctrine. It is only because you do not understand it that you think others of us do not.

Distinct means different, as you probably are well aware.

Yes, it does and we have been affirming this all along......distinct in 'person' but not in 'being'. The three persons are the same being.

This is the point where it defies explanation and has been recognized throughout Christian history as a great mystery to the Glory of GOD, which cannot be penetrated or explained but is accepted on faith/trust of the scriptures.

 

[fishrovmen]

So, getting back to discussion of Jesus' spiritual body. My question to you GT is this: how did Stephen know that it was Jesus standing next to God?

 

[meshak]

So, getting back to discussion of Jesus' spiritual body. My question to you GT is this: how did Stephen know that it was Jesus standing next to God?

would you like to take my challenge on one on one, brother?

 

[God's Truth]

I just showed you foundational statements of Trinitarian beliefs.

Go ask AMR.

No, while it is true that AMR is credentialed, very articulate, uses classical debate techniques very well and is an able defender, he is not the only one here who understands Trinitarian doctrine. It is only because you do not understand it that you think others of us do not.

You are being untruthful.
The trinity doctrine says that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are NOT the same, and that they are DIFFERENT, and SEPARATE.

Yes, it does and we have been affirming this all along......distinct in 'person' but not in 'being'. The three persons are the same being.

This is the point where it defies explanation and has been recognized throughout Christian history as a great mystery to the Glory of GOD, which cannot be penetrated or explained but is accepted on faith/trust of the scriptures.

You have no right to go against me if you cannot explain your beliefs.

 

[fishrovmen]

I already posted my view on debating. Do you have a current thread somewhere that explains what you believe? I don't want to get off course from the topic at hand in this thread.

 

[meshak]

I am challenging because none of trinity believers could not refute my claim.

they sleaze out. I think that's the main reason why so many hard core trins put me on ignore because they cannot answer simple questions.

they are trained to debate non-issues.

 

[God's Truth]

So, getting back to discussion of Jesus' spiritual body. My question to you GT is this: how did Stephen know that it was Jesus standing next to God?

Jesus can appear to us as the way he looked while on earth, or he can look like someone else.

Luke 24:32 They asked each other, "Were not our hearts burning within us while he talked with us on the road and opened the Scriptures to us?"

 

[glorydaz]

You said it better than I could.

God's truth, at best, seems to be semi-trinitarian.

Either Jesus Christ is God or he is not.

Jesus Christ is not God, he is the son of God.

Son, as in male offspring, with a beginning. Matthew 1:18

GT seems to be riding the fence

Since Jesus Christ is the son of God, not God himself, any support for a trinity does not exist.

If you have a son, he would be a man (human), right?
But he would not be you.

Of course, the Word who was God became flesh and dwelt among us. That's not how you had your son, was it? You didn't become flesh and move into the nursery as a baby. You can't use your human reasoning to understand the deity of Jesus Christ.

 

[glorydaz]

I am challenging because none of trinity believers could not refute my claim.

they sleaze out. I think that's the main reason why so many hard core trins put me on ignore because they cannot answer simple questions.

they are trained to debate non-issues.

No, they don't debate you, because you have proven you do not listen. You don't even accept Paul's teaching....you're outside the faith and there is no reaching you at this point.

 

[Bright Raven]

I am challenging because none of trinity believers could not refute my claim.

they sleaze out. I think that's the main reason why so many hard core trins put me on ignore because they cannot answer simple questions.

they are trained to debate non-issues.

And what is your claim?