That's what 1 John says. But there seems to be sins that don't necessarily break any law. Look at Jesus' sermon about adultery, etc. There is no law against adultery of the heart, yet lust can be a sin.
I don't want to get too off topic though....
Discussion: Jerry Shugart vs Door
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I don't want to get too off topic though....
dreadknought
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:thumb:
Da'Saint
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Thats exactly what I am asking you! According to your theory, if you don't confess "all", then how can you be cleansed "from all unrighteousness"? Do you just pick and choose what is and what isn't at your own accord or convienence?
Go back to the previous verse,
1Jo 1:8 ¶ If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
That is a peculiar statement! What christian says that he/she has no sin? Notice the word "we" is in this statement too! The "we" and "our" inthis verse is used as a general assembly. Same as "we" are all created by "our" creator! That doesn't tell you anything about me or my stance on the subject when used in such a generic way!
1John 1 to me is attacking doctorine issues! Sorry, but I don't agree with confession of sin.
Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Heb 10:11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
Heb 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
Heb 10:13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
Heb 10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
Notice that the Holy Ghost bears witness to the fact that through Christ, we have been sanctified and perfected forever!
Sin is disobedience to the will of God, any mental, verbal, or overt activity contrary to the perfect character and standards of God.
Da'Saint
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That’s my point, you will never live up to God’s standard, nor will any other believer. A believer sins every day. Thus the need for 1 John 1:9
The Doctrine of Hamartiology (sin) has many categories of sin that are unknown to most believers until they examine them in the Bible.
The more Bible doctrine a believer metabolizes, the more spiritually mature they become.
JCWR
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Sin is 'any want of conformity unto or transgression of the law of God' (1 John 3:4; Romans 4:15), in the inward state and habit of the soul, as well as in the outward conduct of the life, whether by omission or commission (Romans 6:12-17; Romans 7:5-24).
JCWR
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Proof you cannot read or understand context! The commitment is within the bounds of the one on one.
It was in the one on one (what door said)
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
No, not pick and choose. Besides having the Scriptures to tell us what is right and wrong we also have our conscience. We should confess any and all things that we have done that we believe are sins.
There are some self proclaimed Christians on this forum who have said that they do not sin.
What do you mean that those words are "used as a general assembly"?
The fact of the matter is that John is writing to Christians (1 Jn.2:12) and he is a Christian himself so when he uses the words "we" and "our" those words must be in reference to believers.
Those words are not used in a generic way, and the "context" proves it. After all, what support from the Scriptures can anyone give which demonstrates that anyone other than a Christian can have their sins cleansed upon confession. A sinner must believe the gospel before any confession brings about a cleansing from sins.
Yes, in our "standing" as risen with Christ and sitting in the heavenlies with Christ. But our "walk" is an entirely different matter.
Here Paul speaks of a sanctification that is in regard to one's walk:
"For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus. For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication: That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour; Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God: That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified. For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness" (1 Thess. 4:3-7).
Here Paul says that this is the will of God, even our "sanctification," that we should abstain from fornication.
This is speaking of a sanctification in our walk. It certainly is not speaking of the same sanctification at Hebrews 10:10.
Can you see the difference?
The Lord has called us to holiness in our walk, which is related to our service for the Lord. And we are to keep ourselves "holy" in regard to our service:
"I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service" (Ro.12:1).
Can you see the difference?
In His grace,
Jerry
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Those words of Door's were written on the one on one.
JCWR
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It literally means someone who cannot speak, like a child or a baby, but has no age limitation. In the passage you cite it is actually metaphorically used to indicate someone who in not enlightened.
Tetelestai, your whole concept of being filled with the spirit is a bunch of nonsense. where besides Ephesians 5:18 do you see it commanded to be filled with the spirit? Ephesians 5:15-21 is not a doctrinal set of verses. it is an admonishment on how to conduct your life. paul says be not drunk with wine but instead be filled with the Spirit. this filling is being compared to being drunk. he is saying to let your mine be controlled by the Spirit and not be controlled by alcohol. there is no idea mentioned here of the Spirit being reduced to a powerless speck that has no influence over your life . nor is there any mention here of confession being the remedy of a puny powerless Spirit.
the one and ONLY thing that restrains the Spirit in a christians life is trying to sanctify yourself through works of the law.
the one and ONLY thing that restrains the Spirit in a christians life is trying to sanctify yourself through works of the law.
JCWR
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Context, Jerry! Context! Just as we interpret the Bible, we look at who is speaking, their style of communication, the audience, and the surrounding context.
Who is speaking? Door.
What is Door's usual style when he really wants to use ad hominems? Very caustic.
'pathetic little child'- hardly qualifies as ad hominem when compared to the author's normal style of rhetoric and argumentation
'who lacks integrity, and intelligence' - descriptive terms that are beyond the mark of what anyone would call ad hominem, but especially when considering the author.
Nang
TOL Subscriber
Indeed.
There is no such thing as a Christian who remains carnal and (supposedly) arrested in spiritual growth!
No genuine, regenerate "son of God," will continue in any carnal condition, lest the Holy Spirit who saves and sanctifies, be blasphemed and put to shame.
Quite a warning regarding spiritual hypocrisy from Paul, to those who profess to be Christians, but who never spiritually develop. (All visible churches are full of such hypocrites, who proclaim to be saved and in Christ, but who never exhibit His saving grace or Holy Spirit.)
Nang
Door
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I responded to YOUR lack of integrity, because you chose to try and piss me off by saying this...
You have failed so miserably to make a single argument that you have resorted to trying to get under my skin in the hopes that I would tell you to go to hell, so that you could boast about it on this thread.
YOU ARE PATHETIC, and this childish attempt of yours to exalt yourself by this post of yours proves.
Go to hell, you worthless pile of turds.
There are sinners and saints, those who are carnal and those who are in Christ. This is the global picture.
There are also Christians who sin in specific ways and atheist who do not sin in that same way. In the last 30 years as a Christian, I have lusted, overate (gluttony), had moments of pride, etc. In that choice, it is fleshly, not of the Spirit. This does not make me carnal and godless in total. Unbelief is another matter. Those who have fallen away and renounced Christ and His finished work may be 'clean living', but they are godless and have reverted to a carnal state and carnal specific choices that reflect a godless life. My imperfect choices did not negate my sonship since I did not sever the relationship through a denial of the very existence of God (atheism) or a worship of Satan or Buddha. It is odious in your view to think one can worship God and Satan and be considered a saint going to heaven (contrary to a holy God's own words where we cannot serve two masters)?!
We are talking about extremes, not grey areas on the continuum between wavering belief and final rebellion against light and truth.
Cracked
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"In modern times some have occasionally denied that a Christian needs to confess his sins and ask forgiveness. It is claimed that a believer already has forgiveness in Christ (Eph. 1:7). But this point of view confuses the perfect position which a Christian has in God’s Son (by which he is even “seated . . . with Him in the heavenly realms” [Eph. 2:6]) with his needs as a failing individual on earth. What is considered in 1 John 1:9 may be described as “familial” forgiveness. It is perfectly understandable how a son may need to ask his father to forgive him for his faults while at the same time his position within the family is not in jeopardy. A Christian who never asks his heavenly Father for forgiveness for his sins can hardly have much sensitivity to the ways in which he grieves his Father. Furthermore, the Lord Jesus Himself taught His followers to seek forgiveness of their sins in a prayer that was obviously intended for daily use (cf. the expression “give us today our daily bread” preceding “forgive us our debts,” Matt. 6:11-12). The teaching that a Christian should not ask God for daily forgiveness is an aberration. Moreover, confession of sin is never connected by John with the acquisition of eternal life, which is always conditioned on faith. First John 1:9 is not spoken to the unsaved, and the effort to turn it into a soteriological affirmation is misguided."
Walvoord, John F. ; Zuck, Roy B. ; Dallas Theological Seminary: The Bible Knowledge Commentary : An Exposition of the Scriptures. Wheaton, IL : Victor Books, 1983-c1985, S. 2:886
:rapture:
Walvoord, John F. ; Zuck, Roy B. ; Dallas Theological Seminary: The Bible Knowledge Commentary : An Exposition of the Scriptures. Wheaton, IL : Victor Books, 1983-c1985, S. 2:886
:rapture:
I have said the Corinthians were carnal in some choices yet were called saints, set apart for God. They were rebuked for their carnality without denying their salvation. Heb. 6:4-6 is a different context about final falling away/apostasy/unbelief, not just fleshly failings like pride and immorality in the context of overall belief (e.g. Jimmy Swaggart and Ted Haggard and Jim Baker are not like Charles Templeton who died an agnostic-atheist).
STP is misrepresenting me again, showing that he should not deny my salvation based on straw men views.
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