Did God Raise Jesus From The Dead Or Did Jesus Christ Raise Himself?

[oatmeal]

And the scripture prove you wrong yet again Patrick jane.

Deuteronomy 18: 18; YHVH, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, says to Moses; "I will send them a prophet like you from among their own people; I will tell him what to say, and he will tell the people everything I command. He will speak in my name etc.

Who is the prophet that the God/JHWH is referring to here?

Peter confirms that Jesus was that man, when in reference to Jesus he says in. Acts 3: 22; For Moses said; "The Lord your God will send you a prophet, just as he sent me, and he will be one of your own people, etc."

Do you believe the words of Peter, patrick?

Acts 3:19; "Repent then and turn to God, (Not to Jesus, but to God) so that He (God) will forgive your sins. If you do, times of spiritual strength will come from the Lord, and He will send Jesus, who is the Messiah that he has already CHOSEN for you.

The man Jesus, was CHOSEN and made both Lord and saviour by "Who I Am".

Did the people of his day believe that he was the Lord, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The God of our ancestors? No, they did not, for on the day of his triumphant entry into Jerusalem, the people escorting him cried out, "BLESSED IS HE WHO COMES IN THE NAME OF THE LORD" Verifying that they believed Jesus to be the one that God had promised that he would choose from among the Israelites, and send to the people to speak in his name.

Jesus who admits that he spoke not one word on his own authority, but only that which he was commanded to say by our Lord God and saviour, says in John 5: 24; "Whoever hear my words (The words that he was commanded to say) and believes in "HIM" who sent me, has eternal life.

You must believe in "HIM" who sent Jesus to inherit eternal life.

John 14: 24; "And the word which you hear is not mine, but THE father's who sent me. OUR Father who art in heaven, etc.

Whose words were these in reference to the body of Jesus which had been filled by the spirit of the Lord that had descended upon him in the form of a dove?

"Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up?"

If those were the words of the man Jesus, we would expect to see that Jesus raised himself from death, but if they were the words of the Lord who filled the man Jesus with his spirit and chose him to speak in his name, then they would have been the words that the Lord commanded his obedient servant Jesus to speak, and we would expect to see that it was the Lord who raised the man Jesus to life, as seen in...............

Acts 17: 31; For He (The Lord) has fixed a day in which he will judge the whole world with justice by means of a MAN he has CHOSEN. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising that MAN from death.

Acts 5: 30; The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom you slew and hanged on a tree.

Acts 13: 30; But God raised him from the dead: and he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee, etc.

1st Corinthians 6: 14; And God has both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.

2nd Corinthians 1: 9; But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead.

2nd Corinthians 4: 14; knowing that he who raised the Lord Jesus will raise us also with Jesus and bring us with you into his presence.

And in John 20: 17; Jesus said to Mary Magdalene; "Go to my brothers and tell them that I am ascending to him who is my Father and their Father, my God and their God.

Jesus is not God, Patrick.

Good post!

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

Evidently, you have not looked up any of those numerous verses that clearly state that God raised Jesus from the dead.

You have no interest in those verses.

A one verse "believer", eh?

By believing God and humbling himself he the same as raised himself.

Saying Jesus is God is another can of worms.

 

[oatmeal]

When we read I These 4:16,we learn that the dead in Christ shall rise first... It does not say that we will be raised first. The implication here is that because we are believers we believe the promise of God even as Jesus Christ believed the OT promise that he would be raised. This is most interesting on light of John 14:12, where Jesus C. speaking the words that gave him to speak tells us that not only can we do the same works that he food but greater works as well!!!!!

 

[Oleander]

Let's agree Jesus raised himself.

According to Jesus, who gave (Jesus) the power to do so?

Matt.28:18 ALL authority in heaven and earth has been GIVEN to me.

 

[oatmeal]

Let's agree Jesus raised himself.

According to Jesus, who gave (Jesus) the power to do so?

Matt.28:18 ALL authority in heaven and earth has been GIVEN to me.

So what is the answer to your question?

"who gave (Jesus) the power to do so?"

Who had the power to give Jesus that power?

Until Jesus was given that power, did he have any power?

What does "ALL" mean?

Does the giver of the power now have no power because the giver gave "ALL" power to Jesus?

 

[meshak]

Evidently, you have not looked up any of those numerous verses that clearly state that God raised Jesus from the dead.

You have no interest in those verses.

A one verse "believer", eh?

Yes, he is.

and one fits all verse.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

And the scripture prove you wrong yet again Patrick jane.

Deuteronomy 18: 18; YHVH, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, says to Moses; "I will send them a prophet like you from among their own people; I will tell him what to say, and he will tell the people everything I command. He will speak in my name etc.

Who is the prophet that the God/JHWH is referring to here?

Peter confirms that Jesus was that man, when in reference to Jesus he says in. Acts 3: 22; For Moses said; "The Lord your God will send you a prophet, just as he sent me, and he will be one of your own people, etc."

Do you believe the words of Peter, patrick?

Acts 3:19; "Repent then and turn to God, (Not to Jesus, but to God) so that He (God) will forgive your sins. If you do, times of spiritual strength will come from the Lord, and He will send Jesus, who is the Messiah that he has already CHOSEN for you.

The man Jesus, was CHOSEN and made both Lord and saviour by "Who I Am".

Did the people of his day believe that he was the Lord, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The God of our ancestors? No, they did not, for on the day of his triumphant entry into Jerusalem, the people escorting him cried out, "BLESSED IS HE WHO COMES IN THE NAME OF THE LORD" Verifying that they believed Jesus to be the one that God had promised that he would choose from among the Israelites, and send to the people to speak in his name.

Jesus who admits that he spoke not one word on his own authority, but only that which he was commanded to say by our Lord God and saviour, says in John 5: 24; "Whoever hear my words (The words that he was commanded to say) and believes in "HIM" who sent me, has eternal life.

You must believe in "HIM" who sent Jesus to inherit eternal life.

John 14: 24; "And the word which you hear is not mine, but THE father's who sent me. OUR Father who art in heaven, etc.

Whose words were these in reference to the body of Jesus which had been filled by the spirit of the Lord that had descended upon him in the form of a dove?

"Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up?"

If those were the words of the man Jesus, we would expect to see that Jesus raised himself from death, but if they were the words of the Lord who filled the man Jesus with his spirit and chose him to speak in his name, then they would have been the words that the Lord commanded his obedient servant Jesus to speak, and we would expect to see that it was the Lord who raised the man Jesus to life, as seen in...............

Acts 17: 31; For He (The Lord) has fixed a day in which he will judge the whole world with justice by means of a MAN he has CHOSEN. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising that MAN from death.

Acts 5: 30; The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom you slew and hanged on a tree.

Acts 13: 30; But God raised him from the dead: and he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee, etc.

1st Corinthians 6: 14; And God has both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.

2nd Corinthians 1: 9; But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead.

2nd Corinthians 4: 14; knowing that he who raised the Lord Jesus will raise us also with Jesus and bring us with you into his presence.

And in John 20: 17; Jesus said to Mary Magdalene; "Go to my brothers and tell them that I am ascending to him who is my Father and their Father, my God and their God.

Jesus is not God, Patrick.

I believe exactly as you do on this.

LA

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

The man Jesus, who was the earthly host body that God had prepared for his son to fill with his spirit and reveal himself to the world,

Ummmmm....no.

Your statement above makes it sound like the man Jesus was nothing more than the host for a heavenly spiritual parasite. Like He was possessed or something.

That's not true. Jesus was a person with a body and a spirit. One person.

and the awesome sacrifice that he makes for his elect and chosen ones, and for the continual survival of the species of mankind,

Huh? How did Jesus' sacrifice aid in the "continual survival of the species of mankind"? I've never heard of that one before.

Are you suggesting that without Jesus' sacrifice, the human species would be extinct?

was raised from death by God.

Acts 17: 31; For He (The Lord) has fixed a day in which he will judge the whole world with justice by means of a MAN he has CHOSEN. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising that MAN from death.

Acts 5: 30; The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom you slew and hanged on a tree.

Acts 13: 30; But God raised him from the dead: and he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee, etc.

1st Corinthians 6: 14; And God has both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.

2nd Corinthians 1: 9; But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead.

2nd Corinthians 4: 14; knowing that he who raised the Lord Jesus will raise us also with Jesus and bring us with you into his presence.

Amen.

However, the best answer I have seen in this thread was given by glorydaz back in post #5.

Here's why:

He/She is taking into account all of the biblical data....not just certain portions of it.

You are not doing that.

You seem to be ignoring John 10:18 which Patrick brought up at the outset.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

A big part of the problem is that you believe that 'to die' is to 'cease to exist'.

The big part of your problem is that you believe Christ did not completely die.

You also believe other men do not die when they die.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

Can a dead person raise himself?

LA

Depends on what you mean by "dead".

For most people, a human death is the separation of the human soul from a human body.

In that case, yes. A dead person can raise Himself....if He has the power to do so.

Only God has that power. So Jesus is God according to John 10:18.

If your meaning of death is "to cease to exist"....then no. A dead person can't.

But I haven't heard of much evidence that shows death means "to cease to exist" and plenty that the human spirit lives on.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Depends on what you mean by "dead".

For most people, a human death is the separation of the human soul from a human body.

In that case, yes. A dead person can raise Himself....if He has the power to do so.

Only God has that power. So Jesus is God according to John 10:18.

If your meaning of death is "to cease to exist"....then no. A dead person can't.

But I haven't heard of much evidence that shows death means "to cease to exist" and plenty that the human spirit lives on.

First you claim it is the soul which is not dead when people die, then you want to try and back that up by saying it is the spirit which does not die.

Behind all that is the unbelief that Christ died, which is the cornestone idea of spiritism and talking to the dead.

LA

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

And it was the Lord, The Son of Man, who is the Son of God, "WHO I AM," who chose the man Jesus from among the Israelites to speak in his name, the Lord, who would tell him what to say, and he would repeat to the people everything that the Lord commanded him to say. See Deuteronomy 18: 18.

It is pretty clear from Scripture that Jesus Himself is the Son of Man:

Matthew 8:20, Matthew 9:6, Matthew 11:19, Matthew 12:8, Matthew 12:40, ..and more.

In each of these verses Jesus is referring to Himself as the Son of Man.

Matthew 16:13 seems crystal clear about that:

"When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?

Who do men say that "I", "the Son of man", am?

That's pretty clear.

It was the Lord, 'WHO I AM,' who, in John 10: 18; through the mouth of his obedient servant, the man Jesus, said; "No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from my Father.”

Untrue. It was Jesus, the person Jesus, who spoke those words.

You are making Jesus sound possessed again. That just isn't true.

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

If he raised himself he was not really dead.

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False.

His soul was separated from His body so He was dead. And in His spiritual state, He is still God just like He was before He took on human flesh. And He, therefore, had the power to raise Himself.

And so He did.

Death doesn't mean to "cease to exist".

I suppose that would be an entire discussion in and of itself. I just wonder what evidence there is that death means to "cease to exist."

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

God raised Jesus from the dead. There are so many scriptures that make that plain, that I see no need to list any, that is, for any serious Bible student

Your comment doesn't address Patrick's verse that he quoted. John 10:18.

It ignores it.

That isn't being a serious Bible student either.

And we don't typically (that I know of) decide what Scripture teaches by creating tally marks and seeing what is said more of versus what is said less of.

That isn't how most Christians do theology.

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

Nope. Sorry oats but Jesus raised Himself. Jesus is God

I still think we should look at not just certain Scriptures but as many as we can that speak to the issue. All of them would be great.

When we do that....I still think that glorydaz has given the best response in post #5.

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

Good point. And when he appears we will be just like him and see him as he is.

Beloved, now we are children of God and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him for we shall see Him as He is. (1 John 3:2)

Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren... (Hebrews 2:17)​

Hi Jamie.

You added a word in your comments that I don't think is in the Scripture verses you quoted.

You added the word "just".

You said "...we will be just like him...".

But I don't think that is true because the verses don't say that.

They say "like" him.

In other words, we will be like Him but not "just" like Him. There will be differences.

Namely, that Jesus is God and the best we can ever hope to be are perfected human beings.

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

If your God can die you've the wrong God.


Sent from my iPad using TOL

OR....you could have the wrong idea about God.

God the Father didn't die. God the Holy Spirit didn't die.

God the Son died.

And then Resurrected.

That's not the wrong God.

That is one heck of an awesome God!! Loves humans so much He is willing to die for us?

That is Love.

 

[keypurr]

False.

His soul was separated from His body so He was dead. And in His spiritual state, He is still God just like He was before He took on human flesh. And He, therefore, had the power to raise Himself.

And so He did.

Death doesn't mean to "cease to exist".

I suppose that would be an entire discussion in and of itself. I just wonder what evidence there is that death means to "cease to exist."

Scripture please.

Define soul.

Jesus was a man, not God.

The logos that was in him is a created form of God.

Sent from my SM-T330NU using TheologyOnline mobile app

 

[oatmeal]

Your comment doesn't address Patrick's verse that he quoted. John 10:18.

It ignores it.

That isn't being a serious Bible student either.

And we don't typically (that I know of) decide what Scripture teaches by creating tally marks and seeing what is said more of versus what is said less of.

That isn't how most Christians do theology.

That is a very strong opinion.

Your error is that is does address John 10:18 quite directly. That is, unless you consider John 10:18 the only valid scripture on this subject.

If that was the only verse on this subject in scripture, then your point would have some validity, but to willfully ignore the many verses that tell us that God raised Jesus from the dead is foolhardy.

If a person is willing to meet the two conditions given in Romans 10:9 in order to be saved they must acknowledge, that is believe in their heart that

a. Jesus raised himself

b. God raised Jesus from the dead.

What truth must a person believe in their heart to be saved according to Romans 10:9?

 

[keypurr]

OR....you could have the wrong idea about God.

God the Father didn't die. God the Holy Spirit didn't die.

God the Son died.

And then Resurrected.

That's not the wrong God.

That is one heck of an awesome God!! Loves humans so much He is willing to die for us?

That is Love.

There is not God the Son.

There is a Son of God who is Lord, not God.

You believe church traditional fairy tales made by men who thought the world was flat and you could fall off the edge.

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