keypurr
Well-known member
Did you ever drive a baloney truck?
Denial of the deity of Jesus
- Thread starter Bright Raven
- Start date
Did you ever drive a baloney truck?
keypurr
Well-known member
We all do, when we can. I like his symbols of comfort but I no longer smoke cigars. I gave them up forty years ago, my pipe too.
He could do nothing with out the Father. Our dead flesh does not please the Father. By your confession, your fruit, I know what people believe. Because they tell us. If he is King of Israel come down from that cross is the testimony of a nonbeliever.
Yet you have a problem with the first Commandment.
:up:
keypurr
Well-known member
No, but most "Christians" do, they have created another God.
We have one God AND one Lord just as Paul says.
You love your theology more, like the high priests who dismissed Him.
keypurr
Well-known member
My high priest say to love his Father, and I do.
1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
Dont leave out "seeing he delighted in him".
Hmmmmmm?
Psalm 22:8 KJV
8 He trusted on the LORD that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him.
John 14:8-14
8Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. 9Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? 10Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake. 12Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. 13And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
8Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. 9Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? 10Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake. 12Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. 13And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
What's in a name?
Philippians 2:9 KJV
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
Acts 3:16 KJV
16 And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong , whom ye see and know : yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.
Acts 4:12 KJV
12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved .
John 5:22-30
22 For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son, 23 that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.
24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, she who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. 25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, 27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man. 28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. 30 I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me.
22 For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son, 23 that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.
24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, she who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. 25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, 27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man. 28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. 30 I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me.
Jesus denied his divinity clearly:
"Why do you call ME good? Only God alone is good."
I tend to bypass the long, mystical theological statements found in the Book of John. That gospel is a late creation and is certainly not concerned with the earthly authentic figure of Jesus. It is important because it provides us with the basis of the early Christian theology.
Like many followers today, John put his community's own dogma in Jesus's mouth to justify their unique agenda.
The clear pattern in the New Testament is Jesus's penchant for continually and completely side-stepping the idea of his divinity. He only referred to himself as the Son of Man, which means "Son of Adam" or--as we moderns would say--"a human being."
Plus there are one or two references to himself as a prophet. It was the later followers that titled him "God" or "Son of God."
Sorry, that was an affirmation of his deity. In being called good, he was being called God
You don't need to feel "sorry." If that is really your interpretation, you have a right to express it.
But in my view it is an interpretation and a theological faith opinion that is not found in the text itself. It is another case of our putting our modern views back into the past.
We can only go by what exactly is actually THERE in the New Testament.
No more, no less.
If Jesus actually DID think God was divine his clear and literal statement says he himself did not claim that exalted title for himself.
What we CAN assume is that some people DID call him "good" when he was alive. That is ALL we can say for certain if we take the gospels seriously.
So with people calling him "good", what does imply considering the context of the passage.
To me it means Jesus took the word "good" seriously.
We rarely eat a sandwich because it is inherently good--even though we thoughtlessly claim it is so. I also eat pumpernickel bread--not because I like it, but because it is truly "good" bread.
There's a big difference and I think Jesus was pointing to this important distinction.
But I guess the difference between us is that if I am honest I have to admit I can't really claim I am right. All we have are accounts written decades after the crucifixion and have been translated and translated until all we have are copies of copies of copies.
But based on the religious context of the time, I have concluded to take him at his word. He either said it or he didn't. He never overtly claimed divinity himself. That's what I see and I am not the only one by any stretch.
But I could easily be wrong.
Many of his followers thought Jesus was good and told him so. That is ALL the implication is. We should not ADD to scripture. We should take it on its own terms.