ECT Definition of "Works Salvation"

[patrick jane]

Just think, the Ethiopian was going to Jerusalem to worship. That means he not only had faith in Jesus, but he also obeyed God before he was saved.

just think, if the Ethiopian only believed and had faith in Jesus and worshiped God, but didn't get baptized in water; he would go to hell-atrol:

wouldn't he ?

 

[Cross Reference]

That's not us. This is:

Ephesians 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

Ephesians 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

Ephesians 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Ephesians 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

...


Titus 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Titus 3:6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

Titus 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

I think Paul is writing to those who are born again: whose lives reveal they are born again.

 

[Cross Reference]

Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

So I guess it is safe to to say then that the average Christian Pastor doesn't work for his paycheck??

 

[jamie]

It must be a true confession that is accompanied with a belief in your heart.

In all the scriptural references I have found, belief and confession happens before baptism, like with the Ethiopian in Acts 8:36-37.

Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Then they laid hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit.
(Acts 8:14-17 NKJV)​

Belief and confession happens before baptism but baptism does not impart the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit works through men, in this case by the laying on of hands which is a basic element of the doctrine of Christ.

 

[God's Truth]

just think, if the Ethiopian only believed and had faith in Jesus and worshiped God, but didn't get baptized in water; he would go to hell-atrol:

wouldn't he ?

He might not go to Hell, because even after he dies he still has a chance to repent. However, he would not have known salvation in his lifetime.

Tell me, why are you going against the scriptures about the Ethiopian?

 

[heir]

I think Paul is writing to those who are born again: whose lives reveal they are born again.

That's funny. Paul never used the term "born again" to describe members of the Body of Christ.

What work did you have to DO to be saved?

 

[Cross Reference]

That's funny. Paul never used the term "born again" to describe members of the Body of Christ.

Does that matter?? If you understood what you read when reading the Bible, if you even own one, you would quickly come to realize that those to whom Paul wrote his letters were born again, Pentecostal Christians __ and that isn't my opinion.

What work did you have to DO to be saved?

Get a life ___ Get His Life.

 

[Cross Reference]

The way you all have been misunderstanding/misreading the OP, one would think you are all "average Christian Pastors"living under heavy conviction.

 

[lifeisgood]

He might not go to Hell, because even after he dies he still has a chance to repent.

You are saying that Jesus Christ and His FINISHED work on the Cross of Calvary was NOT enough TO SAVE and Purgatory need to be ADDED to His ALREADY FINISHED work.

You profane the Name that is above every name.

However, he would not have known salvation in his lifetime.

Let's leave as we please, and let live, because Purgatory is always available for an UNbeliever to be saved after he dies. :nono:

Tell me, why are you going against the scriptures about the Ethiopian?

There are many Ethiopian-like individuals all around the world doing things but not understanding.

 

[Cross Reference]

Speaking to the churches:

". . . . . . I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works". Revelation 2:23 (KJV)

Question: From the extreme swing of the pendulum, good to bad, what meaning can we take from the above verse?

 

[jamie]

Speaking to the churches:

". . . . . . I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works". Revelation 2:23 (KJV)

Question: From the extreme swing of the pendulum, good to bad, what meaning can we take from the above verse?

I take it as a reference to Jesus' parable of the talents.

 

[Cross Reference]

I take it as a reference to Jesus' parable of the talents.

That is of your baseless "theology", not mine that lets the scriptures say what they intend to convey.

 

[God's Truth]

You are saying that Jesus Christ and His FINISHED work on the Cross of Calvary was NOT enough TO SAVE and Purgatory need to be ADDED to His ALREADY FINISHED work.

You profane the Name that is above every name.

Jesus is the judge.

Hebrews 9:27 Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment,

Let's leave as we please, and let live, because Purgatory is always available for an UNbeliever to be saved after he dies.

A person still must come through Jesus to be saved.

If you are not in Jesus, then you do not have salvation in this life. You are bragging about living the way you want now and being saved after death, as if living in sin is somehow good. You also must argue that God does not know our hearts.

There are many Ethiopian-like individuals all around the world doing things but not understanding.

The Ethiopian asked about Jesus. The Ethiopian was already a believer in God. There were no scriptures written yet about Jesus in the New Testament. The New Testament is the mystery revealed.

 

[God's Truth]

That's funny. Paul never used the term "born again" to describe members of the Body of Christ.

What work did you have to DO to be saved?

Paul taught how to be saved. That is about being born again.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

there is no such thing as a works salvation

Yes there is but all men fall short. Here Paul speaks of how men can be saved by their deeds or works:

"But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile" (Ro.2:5-9).​

Those who "continue" in well doing and do not sin will receive eternal life. This proves that in theory a man can indeed receive eternal life by his works.

This destroys the idea of "Original Sin."

Why is that?

If a person comes out of the womb dead in sin then it not possible for him to be saved by his works. The sentence upon him is death. No amount of good deeds can bring him righteousness. If he is ever to be justified in the sight of God it must be by the penalty being paid. He must be justified by death, "justified by blood" (Ro. 5:9).

 

[God's Truth]

Yes there is but all men fall short. Here Paul speaks of how men can be saved by their deeds or works:

"But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile" (Ro.2:5-9).​

Those who "continue" in well doing and do not sin will receive eternal life. This proves that in theory a man can indeed receive eternal life by his works.

This destroys the idea of "Original Sin."

Why is that?

If a person comes out of the womb dead in sin then it not possible for him to be saved by his works. The sentence upon him is death. No amount of good deeds can bring him righteousness. If he is ever to be justified in the sight of God it must be by the penalty being paid. He must be justified by death, "justified by blood" (Ro. 5:9).

Why is it so hard for you?

God did not change anything that He said, ever.

We are to obey God.

We obey Jesus and believe, and repent or perish.

That is what all the the Apostles taught.

It is so simple and easy that the wise and educated are stumped over it.

Isaiah 44:25 who foils the signs of false prophets and makes fools of diviners, who overthrows the learning of the wise and turns it into nonsense,

Jeremiah 8:9 The wise will be put to shame; they will be dismayed and trapped. Since they have rejected the word of the LORD, what kind of wisdom do they have?
1 Corinthians 1:20 Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?

1 Corinthians 1:21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

1 Corinthians 2:12 We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.

Luke 10:21 At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this was your good pleasure.


Prostitutes and thieving tax collectors get it and enter before you!

 

[Jerry Shugart]

That's funny. Paul never used the term "born again" to describe members of the Body of Christ.

No one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born again (Jn.3:3). And those in the Body will indeed enter the kingdom.

So even though Paul may have never used the term "born again" he would readily agree that we must be born again.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Why is it so hard for you?

Once again you attack me and at the same time you are unable to prove anything which I said is in error.

We obey Jesus and believe, and repent or perish.

Of course you prove that you refuse to believe these words:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).​

You prove once again that your spiritual IQ is ZERO!.

 

[God's Truth]

Once again you attack me and at the same time you are unable to prove anything which I said is in error.



Of course you prove that you refuse to believe these words:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).​

You prove once again that your spiritual IQ is ZERO!.

Believe what?

Go ahead and explain what you are supposed to believe.

I will help you.

We are to believe that Jesus died for our sins...sins that we repent of.

 

[God's Truth]

Nowhere anywhere do all the scriptures that tell us to 'believe' nullify the scriptures that say 'obey'.