Dear Gun Culture: THIS IS WHAT YOU HAVE WROUGHT

[Ktoyou]

Ban all gangs!
In a scathing critique of ABC’s recent report “Young Guns,” Dana Loesch stated that most gun deaths were the result of gang violence; therefore, America has a gang problem, not a gun problem. Her claim appears to be supported by sites positing that “a staggering 80 percent of gun homicides are gang-related.” As it turns out though, not only is her statement factually incorrect, as the majority of gun deaths are suicides, but there is not a shred of evidence to support her characterization that gangs are the driving force behind firearm violence.
http://www.armedwithreason.com/do-we-have-a-gang-problem-or-a-gun-problem/

 

[Granite]

Ban all gangs!
In a scathing critique of ABC’s recent report “Young Guns,” Dana Loesch stated that most gun deaths were the result of gang violence; therefore, America has a gang problem, not a gun problem. Her claim appears to be supported by sites positing that “a staggering 80 percent of gun homicides are gang-related.” As it turns out though, not only is her statement factually incorrect, as the majority of gun deaths are suicides, but there is not a shred of evidence to support her characterization that gangs are the driving force behind firearm violence.
http://www.armedwithreason.com/do-we-have-a-gang-problem-or-a-gun-problem/

Gee, again: It's just so simple! Let's just ban everything we don't like. We'll wave our wand and pass a Ban the Gangs Bill right after we get our Anti-Idiot legislation passed. Why didn't anybody think of this brilliant stuff before?

 

[Quetzal]

I am amazed at the creativity being using in arguments by the right to fight against any sort of firearm legislation. Read: not banning, but restrictions and background checks.

 

[Rusha]

I am amazed at the creativity being using in arguments by the right to fight against any sort of firearm legislation. Read: not banning, but restrictions and background checks.

There is nothing wrong with restrictions and background checks.

 

[Quetzal]

There is nothing wrong with restrictions and background checks.

I agree and that is what I am in support of. What is a bit alarming is how apologetic certain people are... to guns. :idunno:

 

[Granite]

There is nothing wrong with restrictions and background checks.

Such as?

 

[TomO]

You understand why they are using "rifles" right? There are using a specific class of firearm to skew the data to the point that it is misleading. Sure, they might outnumber rifles, but do they outnumber firearms? I highly doubt it.

This stat is generally used to counter the scary black rifle meme's which fly around.

Handguns are generally the big murder weapon of choice. lain:

 

[Desert Reign]

This is just....beyond sick.

And what is more sick is that it is simply the natural result of what the NRA, their pocketed politicians, and a brainwashed, brutal percentage of the American population have built.

11-year-old ‘bully’ murdered 8-year-old neighbor with a shotgun after dispute over puppy

Well, I've said it all before. Because something will happen often like this when there are so many guns around. As well as all the accidents. So let me try to say it again in a slightly different way, just for interest.
Over here, we are predominantly right wing, though it does tend to swing a bit. But our right wing-ness doesn't stop us from being anti-gun owning.

For a laugh: in the present day in Britain right wing means anti-gun owning. Left wing means anti-gun owning plus anti- nuclear owning! The present Labour leadership would remove all our nuclear deterrent weapons and substantially reduce the size of the armed forces.

So if you are pro guns in the USA, don't go blaming the lefties for wanting to reduce them. Righties also want to reduce them. If you want left, come over here and vote for Jeremy Corbyn!

Also, I think the argument that this bully could have used a kitchen knife doesn't really work. It's because the very idea of guns being so available - and these are weapons designed for only one purpose - inspires violence. You can say that cars also kill or anything else, but guns were designed to kill. And that is what inspires the violence. Cars were not designed to kill. Neither were kitchen knives.

As I've said, I would not lobby to reduce gun ownership in the USA. It is simply your culture. You have to weigh the general happiness owning a gun produces with the other consequences. But you must accept that this kind of event will occur often. Every day almost. Draw a bell chart of emotional and social stability. In a country of 320m people, you are going to get at least 16 million people who are sufficiently emotionally unstable or socially backward who, where the idea of using guns is treated as a normal way of resolving disputes, will be very tempted to pick up the gun and use it. They believe the media, the films, the computer games and when there is a real shooting, the media is all over it so it is big news and these backward ones readily believe the story. Having a gun gives them the power that they lack in their social lives. A gun can make a nobody a somebody.

And you will always have these people with you. I can see that Buzzword, being a lefty, doesn't have a great reputation around here. But spare the prejudice. If it was a right wing person who had asked the same question, what would your reaction be? What is your reaction to the daily shootings and accidents? Is it 'well that's just us - it's the price of our gun-owning culture' or do you perhaps wish it were different?

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
Again, ownership of guns isn't the problem.

Obviously it can be depending on who owns them. Do you want criminals to own guns? People with mental or rage issues? Convicted felons?

There are laws on the books that prohibit certain people from legally owning guns, but that has absolutely nothing to do with your comments on gun buy back programs.


Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
If you do some research you'll find that the cities with huge violent crime rates have the strictest gun control laws. I just read where San Francisco's one and only gun shop is closing (due to political pressure), yet the murder rate in SF has skyrocketed.

Really?
Spoiler

And now for the rest of the story:

"Judicial Watch announced today it obtained records from the San Francisco County Sheriff’s Department revealing that violent crime in the Bay area has skyrocketed since 2011, with the number of arrests for murder up 55%, and the number of arrests for rapes up 370%. Judicial Watch uncovered the numbers through a July 9, 2015, California Public Records Act request that sought the number of arrests for violations of the following crimes between 2011 and 2015:
http://hotair.com/archives/2015/09/12/sanctuary-city-enjoys-skyrocketing-rates-of-murder-rape/

After all of that trouble you went to trying to pass off ultra liberal San Francisco as a non violent city, can I quote you as saying that cities that have the strictest gun control measures are the safest?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
Conservatives always get a good laugh when Seattle has a gun buy back program; the only ones turning in guns are little old ladies whose deceased husband left a 12 gauge shotgun behind and she didn't know what to do with it.

Probably better than having her sell it on Craigslist or giving it to her inexperienced grandson or neighbor.

But Aaron, what about all of those hardcore criminals that come rushing forward to get $50 for their Glock?


Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior
I look past the superficial problem (guns in the hands of criminals) and acknowledge why these people are criminals (our Godless society).

Guns in the hands of criminals is a "superficial problem". You heard it here, folk.

I'll say it again for the Libertarian impaired:

I look past the superficial problem (guns in the hands of criminals) and acknowledge why these people are criminals (our Godless society).


Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
I'll let you know when you can speak for me Aaron.

Should felons be able to own guns? What about someone just released from a mental health facility? When you were released was it probably better that you were not carrying, at least until you got your head right?

Good boy Aaron, let all of that HATRED out.

There are limits to constitutional rights: Even though American citizens have freedom of speech, one can't yell "Bomb!" in a stadium full of people. The same goes with religion: Even though a punch of heroin using Ron Paul supporters start a church called "The church of the drug using Paulbots", doesn't mean that it has to be recognized by government as a legitimate religion.

Quote: Originally posted by WizardofOz
The 2nd Ammendment isn't going away....

Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
You do realize that the purpose behind the 2nd Amendment was to thwart tyrannical governments don't you?

There's still more than enough firearms to go around to deter it.

Who is going to make that decision Aaron: Adolf Hitler? Mao Tse Tung? Joseph Stalin?

Who?

 

[ok doser]

... guns were designed to kill. ...

mine must be defective :idunno:

 

[Rusha]

Such as?

Ban anyone with a history of violent offenses.

 

[Granite]

Ban anyone with a history of violent offenses.

Convicted felons are already prohibited from owning firearms.

I assume you're probably saying we should institute bans on domestic abusers.

 

[ok doser]

Convicted felons are already prohibited from owning firearms.

betcha they cheat

 

[This Charming Manc]

We agree on that.

I think there is a good case for keeping bolt action hunting rifles and some shotguns legal as they are rarely used in violence.

I'm really after military grade weapons, automatic weapons and handguns.

I'm sure you won't agree, but i do understand the difference between countries and cultures and what is right may differ.

This stat is generally used to counter the scary black rifle meme's which fly around.

Handguns are generally the big murder weapon of choice. lain:

 

[WizardofOz]

There are laws on the books that prohibit certain people from legally owning guns, but that has absolutely nothing to do with your comments on gun buy back programs.

No kidding, captain obvious. Do you oppose allowing certain people to purchase firearms?

You know what that's called? Gun control. Eveyone supports it to one degree or another.

Now watch the goal posts move....

Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
If you do some research you'll find that the cities with huge violent crime rates have the strictest gun control laws. I just read where San Francisco's one and only gun shop is closing (due to political pressure), yet the murder rate in SF has skyrocketed.

I showed you that the murder rate in San Francisco (the city) has not skyrocketed and is on pace to about match 2014's total (which was lower than 2013, etc)

And now for the rest of the story:

"Judicial Watch announced today it obtained records from the San Francisco County Sheriff’s Department revealing that violent crime in the Bay area has skyrocketed since 2011, with the number of arrests for murder up 55%, and the number of arrests for rapes up 370%. Judicial Watch uncovered the numbers through a July 9, 2015, California Public Records Act request that sought the number of arrests for violations of the following crimes between 2011 and 2015:
http://hotair.com/archives/2015/09/12/sanctuary-city-enjoys-skyrocketing-rates-of-murder-rape/

Ah, now we're discussing San Franciso County. Which is it? By the way, there are still gun shops in San Francisco County so that tears apart your entire premise about the last gun shop in San Fran closing up now doesn't it?

You're terrible at vetting your sources. You just google any old thing that you think says what you want it to, toss it out and hope that it sticks.

After all of that trouble you went to trying to pass off ultra liberal San Francisco as a non violent city, can I quote you as saying that cities that have the strictest gun control measures are the safest?

And now we're talking about SF the city again. You're all over the board you :dunce:

Do you know the difference between a city...and a county????

But Aaron, what about all of those hardcore criminals that come rushing forward to get $50 for their Glock?

Knock them all you want but what's the harm in such programs?

I'll say it again for the Libertarian impaired:

:doh:
You do realize that you're defending the libertarian position in this debate...don't you?

I look past the superficial problem (guns in the hands of criminals) and acknowledge why these people are criminals (our Godless society).

And only a clueless idiot like yourself would refer to guns in the hands of criminals as a "superficial problem".

There are limits to constitutional rights: Even though American citizens have freedom of speech, one can't yell "Bomb!" in a stadium full of people. The same goes with religion: Even though a punch of heroin using Ron Paul supporters start a church called "The church of the drug using Paulbots", doesn't mean that it has to be recognized by government as a legitimate religion.

To my point. You, like nearly every person in this country, supports gun control to a certain extent.

 

[Ktoyou]

Study: Gun homicides, violence down sharply in past 20 years
Gun-related homicides and crime are "strikingly" down from 20 years ago, despite the American public's belief that firearm crime is on the upswing, a new study said Wednesday.

Looking back 50 years, a Pew Research Center study found U.S. gun homicides rose in the 1960s, gained in the 1970s, peaked in the 1980s and the early 1990s, and then plunged and leveled out the past 20 years.
A Pew survey of Americans in March found 56% believed gun-related crime is higher than 20 years ago and only 12% said it's lower. The survey said 26% believed it stayed the same and 6% didn't know.
The new study found U.S. firearm homicides peaked in 1993 at 7.0 deaths per 100,000 people. But by 2010, the rate was 49% lower, and firearm-related violence -- assaults, robberies, sex crimes -- was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993, the study found. (They listen to all the anti-gun media hype abd assume the worse)
The new study found U.S. firearm homicides peaked in 1993 at 7.0 deaths per 100,000 people. But by 2010, the rate was 49% lower, and firearm-related violence -- assaults, robberies, sex crimes -- was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993, the study found.

Those drops parallel an overall decline in violent non-fatal crime, with or without a gun, the study said.

In fact, gun-related homicide rates in the late 2000s were "equal to those not seen since the early 1960s," the study found. * (When the country went crazy liberal)

http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/08/us/study-gun-homicide/

 

[Quetzal]

This stat is generally used to counter the scary black rifle meme's which fly around.

Handguns are generally the big murder weapon of choice. lain:

Gotcha. :up:

 

[Ktoyou]

And where did the bad people who did the shooting get most of their guns? Were those gun show “loopholes” responsible? Nope. According to surveys DOJ conducted of state prison inmates during 2004 (the most recent year of data available), only two percent who owned a gun at the time of their offense bought it at either a gun show or flea market. About 10 percent said they purchased their gun from a retail shop or pawnshop, 37 percent obtained it from family or friends, and another 40 percent obtained it from an illegal source.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybe...alities-as-gun-sales-soar-gun-crimes-plummet/

 

[Granite]

And where did the bad people who did the shooting get most of their guns? Were those gun show “loopholes” responsible? Nope. According to surveys DOJ conducted of state prison inmates during 2004 (the most recent year of data available), only two percent who owned a gun at the time of their offense bought it at either a gun show or flea market. About 10 percent said they purchased their gun from a retail shop or pawnshop, 37 percent obtained it from family or friends, and another 40 percent obtained it from an illegal source.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybe...alities-as-gun-sales-soar-gun-crimes-plummet/

Is there another magic formula you have in mind? Part of your new Ban Everything strategy?

 

[GuySmiley]

We agree on that.

I think there is a good case for keeping bolt action hunting rifles and some shotguns legal as they are rarely used in violence.

I'm really after military grade weapons, automatic weapons and handguns.

I'm sure you won't agree, but i do understand the difference between countries and cultures and what is right may differ.

Don't you care about the children in your article?