Creation vs. Evolution

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MichaelCadry

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LIFETIME MEMBER
If I base my sanity relative to you and you are crazier than a character from a Lewis Carol novel you must be really, really nuts.I don't base the truth of something based on how popular it is with crazy people.Basing your belief on its popularity isn't rational Mike.

Hey Silent,

I base my sanity based upon myself and all of the millions of Christians whom are correct about the matter. It's not a measure of popularity more than a measure of sane people with good, loving hearts and souls. And no, I am not basing my beliefs on popularity. I am basing them on certain miracles that have happened in my life. You don't know who I am and if I tell you, you would not believe me anyway. So I will not bear witness of myself, but I'll leave that in God's Hands when He feels the time is right. It would be useless to do it myself.

Basing your belief on its popularity isn't rational Mike.

I only have me to thank.

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O you poor, demented soul!! You are the worst atheist that I've ever met. At least the others have some love in their hearts and are partially able to perhaps choose to change their point of view. So even some are still savable. And then, there is you! Que lastima {What a shame}!!

Michael
 

MichaelCadry

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
You can think what you like.
I am an observant Jew. I do not have trouble with the Torah. Only trouble with your view of the Torah.


Dear chair,

And what is an 'observant Jew?' Do you believe in Flood? That the Lord God caused all of the animals to go to Noah and the Ark? The details of Creation as God did it within six days and rested on the seventh? Noah and his ark? The fact that the Earth and Heaven were created during the same six days as beasts/animals and man, and woman?? That means that Heaven and the Earth were created during the same six days? That it is roughly ~6,000 years of time? Can you prove that the Earth was built in millions of years or is it more like 6,000 some years? Is there a tree with 9,000 years of rings in it? What do you think, chair?? Did you believe the book of Isaiah regarding Jesus' coming being foretold by him? Do you believe that Moses saw God?? Just wondering.

Michael
 

chair

Well-known member
Dear chair,

And what is an 'observant Jew?' Do you believe in Flood? That the Lord God caused all of the animals to go to Noah and the Ark? The details of Creation as God did it within six days and rested on the seventh? Noah and his ark? The fact that the Earth and Heaven were created during the same six days as beasts/animals and man, and woman?? That means that Heaven and the Earth were created during the same six days? That it is roughly ~6,000 years of time? Can you prove that the Earth was built in millions of years or is it more like 6,000 some years? Is there a tree with 9,000 years of rings in it? What do you think, chair?? Did you believe the book of Isaiah regarding Jesus' coming being foretold by him? Do you believe that Moses saw God?? Just wondering.

Michael

An observant Jew is one who follows the Jewish laws and customs.
 

chair

Well-known member
What is silly is that are interpreting an ancient record as if it had the accuracy of a teenage fan fiction...

Whatever. I apparently am upsetting your comfortable sate of ignorance. Please do not even read the Wikipedia- it could upset you. (And no, I did not get my information from there- I simply read what the Bible actually says.)

A Goliath makes another appearance in 2 Samuel 21:19, which tells how Goliath the Gittite was killed by "Elhanan the son of Jaare-oregim, the Bethlehemite." The fourth-century BC 1 Chronicles explains the second Goliath by saying that Elhanan "slew Lahmi the brother of Goliath", apparently constructing the name Lahmi from the last portion of the word "Bethlehemite" ("beit-ha’lahmi").[13] The King James Bible translators adopted this into their translation of 2 Samuel 21:18–19, although the Hebrew text at this point makes no mention of the word "brother". "Most likely, storytellers displaced the deed from the otherwise obscure Elhanan onto the more famous character, David."[14]
 

Rosenritter

New member
Whatever. I apparently am upsetting your comfortable sate of ignorance. Please do not even read the Wikipedia- it could upset you. (And no, I did not get my information from there- I simply read what the Bible actually says.)

A Goliath makes another appearance in 2 Samuel 21:19, which tells how Goliath the Gittite was killed by "Elhanan the son of Jaare-oregim, the Bethlehemite." The fourth-century BC 1 Chronicles explains the second Goliath by saying that Elhanan "slew Lahmi the brother of Goliath", apparently constructing the name Lahmi from the last portion of the word "Bethlehemite" ("beit-ha’lahmi").[13] The King James Bible translators adopted this into their translation of 2 Samuel 21:18–19, although the Hebrew text at this point makes no mention of the word "brother". "Most likely, storytellers displaced the deed from the otherwise obscure Elhanan onto the more famous character, David."[14]

I acknowledge your diligence, but it does seem that you are purposely avoiding the answer given to you already. These books of the Bible are intended to be read together. The author of Samuel and Kings makes frequent reference to Chronicles. For example,

1 Kings 14:19 KJV
(19) And the rest of the acts of Jeroboam, how he warred, and how he reigned, behold, they are written in the book of the chronicles of the kings of Israel.

2 Chronicles 36:8 KJV
(8) Now the rest of the acts of Jehoiakim, and his abominations which he did, and that which was found in him, behold, they are written in the book of the kings of Israel and Judah: and Jehoiachin his son reigned in his stead.

In other words, the authors know the books are written in parallel. These are not separate conflicting histories as you claim. Essentially, that is your claim and all it boils down to. No Jew is confused about the story of David and Goliath. The Jewish historian style is not the same as the Muslim, they are not deem it necessary to copy each and every word. Back then you were expected to be knowledgeable enough to fill in gaps. Today we have our own shorthand of missing words and grammar, like "LMAO TTYL." A skilled translator translates into the target language supplying the details that the target audience may not assume. Missing that was your mistake.

Perhaps you could take a break from copying and pasting commentaries and answer the question I posed for you earlier, concerning the translation of that one Hebrew passage? If you employ that same word-for-word stubborn translation style of yours, it forms an incomplete sentence. Yet when Paul (a Hebrew, a Pharisee among Pharisees) translates it into Greek, he includes an object with the verb.

I dare say that Paul was a superior translator of the ancient Hebrew than you, being two thousand years closer to the source and culture. Paul supplies the extra word that the Hebrew assumes from the blank. He knew this simply from their culture. The King James translation (that you see the website supply when we have quotes) also does the same, but in this particular case it is cross-referenced Hebrew it uses.
 

chair

Well-known member
I acknowledge your diligence, but it does seem that you are purposely avoiding the answer given to you already. These books of the Bible are intended to be read together. The author of Samuel and Kings makes frequent reference to Chronicles. For example,
...

The book of Chronicles that we have today in the Bible is not the same book as is referred to in Samuel and Kings, despite the simliar names. I know you won't believe me. So please investigate this yourself. You can read Chronicles in whatever translation you like. Read sites about the Bible. Whatever.

Ignorance can be cured. With knowledge.
 

Rosenritter

New member
The book of Chronicles that we have today in the Bible is not the same book as is referred to in Samuel and Kings, despite the simliar names. I know you won't believe me. So please investigate this yourself. You can read Chronicles in whatever translation you like. Read sites about the Bible. Whatever.

Ignorance can be cured. With knowledge.
What is your reasoning when our Chronicles quotes the book if Kings?
 

chair

Well-known member
What is your reasoning when our Chronicles quotes the book if Kings?

Chronicles was written much later. After the return to Zion in the Persian period. Time of Ezra and Nehemiah. Some of the material there is taken form Samuel and Kings, or parallel sources. It is not the Chronicles of the Kings that you read about in those books. It is possible that some of the material in it was copied from that book.
 

Rosenritter

New member
Chronicles was written much later. After the return to Zion in the Persian period. Time of Ezra and Nehemiah. Some of the material there is taken form Samuel and Kings, or parallel sources. It is not the Chronicles of the Kings that you read about in those books. It is possible that some of the material in it was copied from that book.
When would you say that Daniel was written?
 

MichaelCadry

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
An observant Jew is one who follows the Jewish laws and customs.


Okay, that sounds good, chair. I do the same, to a degree. I celebrate Passover and I make my own homemade Matzoh bread from scratch. It tastes better than that cracker bread, even though I do like that too. I keep a box on hand in case I run out of the homemade bread. I eat an arm shoulder steak of lamb, parsley, basil or dill weed, Matzoh bread, and wine for Passover {no egg}. I don't really celebrate Sukkoth or Yom Kippur and Rosh Hashanah, etc. But I do celebrate my Sabbath on Saturday. I do my best. I like making my own Matzoh Balls {chewy and fluffy kind} and I prefer the fluffy ones. Delicious. I've homemade Kreplach before and it was a lot of work, but just scrumptious in the soup that I made. Well, I'd better quit. I'm getting hungry.

Okay, you are my friend now, if you don't mind. I trust you more now.

God's Grace Be Upon You And His Enduring Love!!

Michael
 

chair

Well-known member
When would you say that Daniel was written?

Apparently during the Babylonian Captivity. That is the setting for the events. But here I must admit that my knowledge is limited. So it is worth investigating that further. Much of Daniel is in Aramaic. My Aramaic is weak, and what I know is from a later period. So Daniel I have read mostly in translation.
 

Silent Hunter

Well-known member
No, didn't say that at all.
Well, yeah, you said exactly that.
That's your argument, don't project yourself onto me like that, it doesn't feel clean.
You've tried it more than once...

Do you believe the KJV is inerrant? How can you know?
These books of the Bible are intended to be read together. The author of Samuel and Kings makes frequent reference to Chronicles. For example,

"the book of the chronicles of the kings of Israel"

"the book of the kings of Israel and Judah"

In other words, the authors know the books are written in parallel. These are not separate conflicting histories as you claim.
As I said, and Chair confirms, what you THINK you know is incorrect. You only know the bible from what you read on apologetics web sites. A little research would correct your misunderstanding.
I dare say that Paul was a superior translator of the ancient Hebrew than you, being two thousand years closer to the source and culture. Paul supplies the extra word that the Hebrew assumes from the blank. He knew this simply from their culture. The King James translation (that you see the website supply when we have quotes) also does the same, but in this particular case it is cross-referenced Hebrew it uses.
"Paul was a superior translator of the ancient Hebrew than you, being two thousand years closer to the source and culture. Paul supplies the extra word that the Hebrew assumes from the blank" from the translators of the KJV. This brings back two questions you ignored:

Do you believe the KJV is inerrant? How can you know?

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patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
Well, yeah, you said exactly that.You've tried it more than once...

Do you believe the KJV is inerrant? How can you know?As I said, and Chair confirms, what you THINK you know is incorrect. You only know the bible from what you read on apologetics web sites. A little research would correct your misunderstanding."Paul was a superior translator of the ancient Hebrew than you, being two thousand years closer to the source and culture. Paul supplies the extra word that the Hebrew assumes from the blank" from the translators of the KJV. This brings back two questions you ignored:

Do you believe the KJV is inerrant? How can you know?

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The KJV is inerrant - Because God said so
 

Silent Hunter

Well-known member
I base my sanity based upon myself and all of the millions of Christians whom are correct about the matter. It's not a measure of popularity more than a measure of sane people with good, loving hearts and souls. And no, I am not basing my beliefs on popularity. I am basing them on certain miracles that have happened in my life. You don't know who I am and if I tell you, you would not believe me anyway. So I will not bear witness of myself, but I'll leave that in God's Hands when He feels the time is right. It would be useless to do it myself.
You know ,Mike, your version of deity giving you cancer and modern medicine curing it isn't a miracle. People believe weird things all the time wheather they have good, loving hearts and souls or not.
O you poor, demented soul!! You are the worst atheist that I've ever met. At least the others have some love in their hearts and are partially able to perhaps choose to change their point of view. So even some are still savable. And then, there is you! Que lastima {What a shame}!!
Demented? Mike, which one of us hears voices, talks to angels and has a line to "god" more direct than Billy Graham?

And what is an 'observant Jew?' Do you believe in Flood? That the Lord God caused all of the animals to go to Noah and the Ark? The details of Creation as God did it within six days and rested on the seventh? Noah and his ark? The fact that the Earth and Heaven were created during the same six days as beasts/animals and man, and woman?? That means that Heaven and the Earth were created during the same six days? That it is roughly ~6,000 years of time? Can you prove that the Earth was built in millions of years or is it more like 6,000 some years? Is there a tree with 9,000 years of rings in it? What do you think, chair?? Did you believe the book of Isaiah regarding Jesus' coming being foretold by him? Do you believe that Moses saw God?? Just wondering.
Believing all the myth in the bible are true history isn't necessary to being an "observant Jew".

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