Creation vs. Evolution

[DavisBJ]

Since the popularity of an idea does not prove it's veracity, your truth test fails when faced with reality.

My “truth test” is to see how well disputed part of the Bible story comport with reality. Staffs turning to snakes, a guy living inside of a fish, rivers turning to blood, a flood that was at best a local one being called global, etc. What yardstick do you use in determining what is true when there is a disagreement?

 

[DavisBJ]

Look up the false dilemma fallacy so you can avoid it in future, miss.

Until you actually show that there is a false dilemma, I suspect you are bluffing.

 

[rstrats]

musterion,
re: "The Bible repeatedly and consistently indicates that it can be chosen."

I'm not aware of any scriptures that say to choose to believe. I have never been able to consciously choose any of the beliefs that I have, nor has anyone that I have asked been able to demonstrate such an abilty. Are you suggesting that you have that ability and can simply choose to believe things?

 

[musterion]

musterion,
re: "The Bible repeatedly and consistently indicates that it can be chosen."

I'm not aware of any scriptures that say to choose to believe. I have never been able to consciously choose any of the beliefs that I have, nor has anyone that I have asked been able to demonstrate such an abilty. Are you suggesting that you have that ability and can simply choose to believe things?

If we can be condemned for refusing to believe what God says then yes, we must have that power. If we don't, God is a liar for damning for unbelief those He knows can't provide the belief He exhorts them to. God is not a liar, so we do have that ability. Luke 13:3 and 2 Thess 2:9-10 are two of the clearest. There are many others.

 

[rstrats]

musterion,
re: "...we do have that ability."

Then perhaps you can help. As I said, I've never been able to consciously choose any of the beliefs that I have and I would like to be able to do that. If you think that you can consciously CHOOSE to believe things, I wonder if you might explain how you do it. What do you do at the last moment to instantly change your one state of belief to another? What is it that you do that would allow you to say, "OK, at this moment I have a lack of belief that 'x' exists or is true, but I CHOOSE to believe that 'x' exists or is true and now instantly at this new moment I do believe that 'x' exists or is true"?

Maybe you could use something like leprechauns to demonstrate your ability and technique. According to the Encyclopedia Britannica, a leprechaun is "fairy peculiar to Ireland, who appeared in the form of an old man of minute stature, wearing a cocked hat and a leather apron" and who stores a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow and if ever captured has to grant 3 wishes. So, assuming that you don't already have a belief in them, how about right now, while you are reading this, CHOOSE to believe - be convinced without a doubt - that they exist. Now that you believe in leprechauns, my question is, how did you do it? How did you make the instantaneous transition from lack of belief to belief?

 

[Stripe]

For starters, there are umpteen billions of people that have already died. Are their spirits all playing canasta and singing songs, too busy for even one single one of them to stop by and say “Hi” to me? Or to anyone?

Ah, the argument from silence. A Darwinist staple.

The number of times you make ephemeral claims of having already presented evidence is a substantial number, yet the frequency with which you actually present the evidence is on a par with the frequency with which ghosts visit me.

Nope.

Feel free to read what I wrote. :up:

And, ladies and gentlemen, expect Stripe to run like a rabbit once again to ignore answering a subject he inserted into the conversation:How do you add metaphysical things to embryos?

We know why you're desperate to avoid the topic.

 

[Lon]

Regarding answer to prayer, I have accumulated a rather diverse list of testimonies of answers to prayer. Mormons, Baptists, Catholics, 7-th Day Adventists, Jehovah’s Witnesses, etc. have all testified how it was answer to prayer that undeniably confirmed to each of them that their unique branch of religion was the one and only true faith.
And I confess, when I was a believer, I made similar claims. But for many years my lips were making professions of faith while deep inside of me there were important and unresolved questions. I realized I could have equally been an exemplary member of any of the competing sects if I did exactly as I was doing – publically professing what others wanted to hear, while being less than fully honest within the private recesses of my own soul.

Not sure how that could happen. For me? Many of them too miraculous. Now yes, I've seen fakery, but even in the NT, there is record of that. It is a logical book, even with extraordinary record.

I don’t question the obvious value of Christianity for many people in the world. But for me, that does nothing to alleviate my convictions that it is still just a man-made social structure. And for me to embrace Christianity would require me to accept as true some Biblical stories that I am convinced are false. To move into the creationist camp for me would be equivalent to digging a really deep hole and hiding from the real world.

It makes a kind of sense. Like many intellectuals or self-proclaimed, a liberalism keeps a spirit of the conveyance, though. I 'think' I'd have to fall into that camp if every I wasn't convinced simply because, I'd see the value in it. It yet gives allegiance to God but it also is a good community, even among liberals (I went to a liberal church for some time).

As I have said to Cadry in earlier posts – when someone asks me to accept the Christian message, in reality they are asking me to debase myself by becoming a liar to myself, to society and (if He exists), to God.

It seems strange. I don't tend to think we spin on a dime and so a 'de-conversion' would be a normal thing. I think any conversion God-ward, is necessarily a supernatural thing. If it is not? Such has always perplexed me. I just could not do such a thing unless something or someone moved me that direction. Logic will not do it for me, it points to His existence.

 

[DavisBJ]

Stripe of the “Let’s pretend we have shown evidence” world

Stripe of the “Let’s pretend we have shown evidence” world

Ah, the argument from silence.

Well, when you guys try to tell me there are a few billion functioning spirits that once lived here, and the only evidence you provide to prove they exist is total silence … well, that is kinda important. I realize you guys buy into all kinds of silliness on the basis of just “faith”, but that is the same thing that snake-oil salesmen have relied on for decades.

Feel free to read what I wrote. :up:

Just more of your reliance on vague allusions to mysterious evidence that you like to pretend you have presented.

We know why you're desperate to avoid the topic.

And we know why you run like a scared rabbit from a subject you brought up: How do you add metaphysical things to embryos?

 

[Stripe]

Well, when you guys try to tell me there are a few billion functioning spirits that once lived here, and the only evidence you provide to prove they exist is total silence.

Nope.

Evidence. It's been presented very recently in this thread. Do try to pay attention. :up:

I realize you guys buy into all kinds of silliness on the basis of just “faith”, but that is the same thing that snake-oil salesmen have relied on for decades.

And you have bought into oblivion, something you can never hope to provide evidence for.

We know why you run like a scared rabbit from the subject.

 

[DavisBJ]

Stipe's Vaporware

Stipe's Vaporware

Nope.

Evidence. It's been presented very recently in this thread. Do try to pay attention. :up:

And you have bought into oblivion, something you can never hope to provide evidence for.

We know why you run like a scared rabbit from the subject.

Maybe sometime, probably long after we are both dead, Stripe will actually show where his ephemeral evidence actually is.

Maybe sometime, probably long after we are both dead, Stripe will explain how he adds metaphysical things to embryos.

 

[Stripe]

Maybe sometime, probably long after we are both dead, Stripe will actually show where his ephemeral evidence actually is.

Darwinists hate reading.

And after we are both dead, you won't need evidence, although I will be happy to show you the posts in this thread where it was presented.

 

[Tyrathca]

Darwinists hate reading.

And after we are both dead, you won't need evidence, although I will be happy to show you the posts in this thread where it was presented.

Will we have to wait until we're dead before you show us?

 

[MichaelCadry]

Hardly. For the nth time in this thread, I would like some member of your cult to forthrightly admit that many fundamentalist ideas about what the Old Testament says are diametrically in opposition to the science that is routinely and successfully used and taught in every major university and industry in the world.

Dear DavisBJ,

You see? That's who you put your Faith in. Major universities and industries. Too bad for you. They can bury you and dig you up, but you still won't be in your body. You will be sadly lacking. Of course God loves free-thinkers, as long as you aren't Satan. Satan's a free-thinker too. He believes in everything that is anti-God. He tries to get others to believe that way also. You just don't see what is being done to you unawares, do you? You are being manipulated by the best there is and you have No Idea what to do about getting out of that traffic, do you? We put our Faith in God and Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. We will not do it needlessly. We will be loved by Him Who loves us. He is the Good Father and the Good Son, follows Him, and so does the Holy Spirit. Instead of universities, we have churches, temples, Theology colleges, and Sunday School for the kids to learn about God and Jesus. That's what you missed out on ... the basic training. Something went awry there or you'd be okay. I don't know what the heck happened unless you were misled by some errant nuns. I would rebel there also. No, I grew up finding love and peace, and happiness. You are just missing the boat because you weren't raised correctly.

God Be With You,

Michael

 

[Stripe]

Do your own reading

Do your own reading

Will we have to wait until we're dead before you show us?

Yep.

I'm not interested in doing your reading for you. Man up and acknowledge what we say.

 

[MichaelCadry]

First show me where I made that claim? But if you think something happens after death then the burdon of proof rests with you.



What's the difference without evidence?



Good for you, but genuine evidence for life after death would be better.



Have at it then, but without evidence it just wishful thinking.



What, after death? There's no evidence dude, snap out of it!



Sure, but blind without evidence.



It's not an active belief as such, more that there is no evidence for life after death. Unless of course you have the evidence...... got any?



Sure, as soon as you show me where I have made that claim. All I have said is that there is no evidence for life after death. I know you are desperate to switch the burden of proof but you are the one who claims (even if it's just blind hope) life after death, so the burden is yours. Present the evidence and we can all go home.



As far as I know you might not be wrong. You just can't demonstrate any truth to it. And that's all there is to it.

What can be claimed without evidence can be dismissed without evidence - Christopher Hitchens

Dear Hedshaker,

We have evidence/proof of what we say. He walked on this Earth 2,000 years ago. You don't want us to base any of our claims on Him, but instead you want us to base our claims on Darwin, who didn't live that long ago? What did Darwin ever do compared to Jesus. What, because our evidence is older than yours, it should be ignored?? You're not fair, are you? So much has been written about our evidence and hardly anything about yours. Shouldn't that count for something? You're the one who is errant, but you must pull your head out of the sand first, and wipe the grains from your eyelids. The sandman is playing you for a fool, and his name is Satan, Jesus' and God's adversary/ enemy. Jesus taught us that there was life after death, and He knows what He's talking about. Do you? I venture not.

Get Your Bags Together; Go, bring your Good Friends too! 'Cause it's getting nearer; soon it will all be true.

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

Dear Friends,

Okay, I am four pages behind so far and I don't think I have the gumption to waddle through and answer all of the posts. There is only one of me and so Many of You! I do love that you care and respond and I also care and try to respond. I do hope you'll understand that I simply cannot answer every post. I'll never catch up. I think every one here has some wonderful input. Just put it out there and see if it survives. I do think that the Truth will prevail and succeed. I'll try to check in here and there to comment as best I can.

Warm Wishes And So Much Love & Respect To All Of You,

Michael

 

[patrick jane]

Dear Friends,

Okay, I am four pages behind so far and I don't think I have the gumption to waddle through and answer all of the posts. There is only one of me and so Many of You! I do love that you care and respond and I also care and try to respond. I do hope you'll understand that I simply cannot answer every post. I'll never catch up. I think every one here has some wonderful input. Just put it out there and see if it survives. I do think that the Truth will prevail and succeed. I'll try to check in here and there to comment as best I can.

Warm Wishes And So Much Love & Respect To All Of You,

Michael

Michael, I think you're a little OCD about trying to reply to every post. Don't worry about it unless the post is directly to you. I know how it can be to feel like you're falling behind and can't catch up. Only reply to posts to you or about you, that's my humble advice.

God Bless

 

[DavisBJ]

Dear DavisBJ,

You see? That's who you put your Faith in. Major universities and industries. Too bad for you. They can bury you and dig you up, but you still won't be in your body. You will be sadly lacking. Of course God ...
Michael

Mike, you are much too volatile. You often take greater offense at my posts to you than is warranted, so I will simply not engage you. Sorry.

 

[DavisBJ]

Stripe - the used car huckster

Stripe - the used car huckster

And after we are both dead, you won't need evidence, although I will be happy to show you the posts in this thread where it was presented.

So your approach to the question of how can we tell if there is life after death - is to wait until we are dead and then we will have the answer. For you that is crystal-clear logic.

 

[DavisBJ]

Selling Promises

Selling Promises

Yep.

I'm not interested in doing your reading for you. Man up and acknowledge what we say.

Interesting how many posts Stipe has been successful at stringing everyone along with nothing more than these ephemeral allusions to something he supposedly said.