Creation vs. Evolution

[MichaelCadry]

You seem to be having trouble reading Michael, as well as understanding. I said in my post I believe both you and Caino are "equally" wrong... did you somehow miss that or did your reading skills take a nose dive again? My last post had nothing to do with the argument content and everything to do with debating tactics. . If you spend your time posting logical fallacies, making personal attacks and calling names then you lose.

But suit yourself. Trying to reason with you is like trying to nail blancmange to the wall.

Dear Hedshaker,

I'm sorry that I misunderstood you. I just saw mopping up the floor and went ballistic. I am more correct than you realize though. What is blancmange? Plasterboard or Whitewall? Will talk with you again soon, hopefully!!

Warmest Regards & Cheerio!!

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

Heaven, the whole Headship of the universe will one day soon headquarter itself on this planted. To hell with your UB.

OMT: Who is the "we" and "us" you speak of in this who will be in that place "Christ went to prepare"?

Dear Cross Reference,

See John 14:2-3KJV}. 'In My Father's house are many mansions. If it were not so, I {Jesus} would have told you {His Disciples}. I go to prepare a place for you.' Words to that effect. There are some new things to learn, too.

God Be With You As You Explore,

Michael

 

[Caino]

I honestly don't think any of you guys are actually confused.... just kind of bat poop crazy, and equally so looking from the outside. I mean, here you are arguing over who has the best magic and in reality there isn't gnats pubic hair between the lot of you.... or maybe the Celestial space people just have the edge over talking snakes.....! Hard to say

There isn't anything unique about your criticism of our faith. Atheist hecklers who's life is so exciting and their doctrines of doubt so confident that they spend an inordinate amount of time picking on religious people, well, that speaks volumes about the inherent values of their belief. Michael and I both have faith in it's generic form, it's the details that we spare over. However we both have this gift of faith.

Those Atheist who eventually become tired of their own BS and are blessed with the spiritual rebirth, the gift of faith, generally report that with this new sort of software they are suddenly able to see the same world of their carping criticism in an entirely different light.

The most sincere non-believers aren't on religious forums, they live and let live.

 

[Caino]

Michael,

Or, the fragments of the more ancient Adamic story, pieced together for Genesis from Mesopotamian lore, are about an incarnate Adam and Eve, two full grown, educated adults, Son and Daughter of God, from another world in Gods creation, who spoke a language understood by the resident but fallen "crafty beast" on a previously populated, evolved earth.


In my understanding all evolved worlds in the Lords creation receive an Adam and an Eve in succession form the 1st spiritual leader, The Planetary Prince. Ordinarily they are to pick up where the last administration left off as the visible representative of the universe government under the Son of God. But a tragedy occurred, "there was war in heaven", an ideological war. Our "prince of this world" fell into rebellion against the rule of the Father, through the Son and on the earth.


Being fully versed and duly warned about the difficulty of the task at hand, Adam and Eve arrived on the fallen, divided earth in the Garden previously prepared for them by the inhabitants who had remained loyal to the rule of the Father. They spent the first 6 days surveying the garden and familiarizing themselves with the people and the Garden. On the 7th day they rested.


In due time a second default occurred, while not a deliberate, open rebellion such as Lucifer's manifesto, Eve succumb to impatience over the backward and deplorable state of affaires left on the earth in the wake of the Princes fall. Outflanked by the suggestions and trickery of the brilliant "fallen prince", Eve decided that injecting her own plan, her own superior genes into the gene pool, would greatly facilitate the degenerate state of affairs on earth. The deed was done, the result was her second Son Cain who's real father was a Nodite from outside the garden.


Realizing what had occurred and being unable to contemplate being without his life partner, Adam deliberately did the same in order to share Eves fate; loss of immortality status. They became like one of us wherein death is mans normal path.


The administrative affairs of the planet were then put under the receivership of the emergency Sons, The Mechizedeks. It was decided by the creator Son Michael that our fallen world among millions under his creational jurisdiction would be the world of his required incarnation. Jesus aka Christ Michael is now the titular "planetary prince" of our world.


Fairly simple stuff and much more consistent with the fragments we have in Genesis.

 

[MichaelCadry]

Jesus is also a person, even the Son of God, creator of this evolved earth and 10,000,000 other evolutionary worlds of time and space.

From my religion:

141:2.1 The night before they left Pella, Jesus gave the apostles some further instruction with regard to the new kingdom. Said the Master: “You have been taught to look for the coming of the kingdom of God, and now I come announcing that this long-looked-for kingdom is near at hand, even that it is already here and in our midst. In every kingdom there must be a king seated upon his throne and decreeing the laws of the realm. And so have you developed a concept of the kingdom of heaven as a glorified rule of the Jewish people over all the peoples of the earth with Messiah sitting on David's throne and from this place of miraculous power promulgating the laws of all the world. But, my children, you see not with the eye of faith, and you hear not with the understanding of the spirit. I declare that the kingdom of heaven is the realization and acknowledgment of God's rule within the hearts of men. True, there is a King in this kingdom, and that King is my Father and your Father. We are indeed his loyal subjects, but far transcending that fact is the transforming truth that we are his sons. In my life this truth is to become manifest to all. Our Father also sits upon a throne, but not one made with hands. The throne of the Infinite is the eternal dwelling place of the Father in the heaven of heavens; he fills all things and proclaims his laws to universes upon universes. And the Father also rules within the hearts of his children on earth by the spirit which he has sent to live within the souls of mortal men.

141:2.2 “When you are the subjects of this kingdom, you indeed are made to hear the law of the Universe Ruler; but when, because of the gospel of the kingdom which I have come to declare, you faith-discover yourselves as sons, you henceforth look not upon yourselves as law-subject creatures of an all-powerful king but as privileged sons of a loving and divine Father. Verily, verily, I say to you, when the Father's will is your law, you are hardly in the kingdom. But when the Father's will becomes truly your will, then are you in very truth in the kingdom because the kingdom has thereby become an established experience in you. When God's will is your law, you are noble slave subjects; but when you believe in this new gospel of divine sonship, my Father's will becomes your will, and you are elevated to the high position of the free children of God, liberated sons of the kingdom.”

141:2.3 Some of the apostles grasped something of this teaching, but none of them comprehended the full significance of this tremendous announcement, unless it was James Zebedee. But these words sank into their hearts and came forth to gladden their ministry during later years of service. UB 1955

Dear Caino,

They were probably all wondering where this 'Pella' is. And why do these UB members feel it necessary to call the Earth 'Urantia?' I mean, what possessed them to do so? Why or why don't they just call it Earth? It's good enough for God to call it Earth. So what gives? And why the confusing, hard to understand, lingo/language? Heaven forbid that someone will figure out that it's all a ruse? Whatever. It is your religion, so I will try to quit discussing it, if I get the chance.

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

I honestly don't think any of you guys are actually confused.... just kind of bat poop crazy, and equally so looking from the outside. I mean, here you are arguing over who has the best magic and in reality there isn't gnats pubic hair between the lot of you.... or maybe the Celestial space people just have the edge over talking snakes.....! Hard to say

Dear Hedshaker,

The talking serpent in the garden of Eden telepathically talked with Eve. Not with it's mouth, amigo.

Much Love & Cheerio, Mate,

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

Heaven is in Heaven, but yes, eventually the original, pre-cross gospel will subdue the world carrying it into an age of light and life. But earth is not mans permanent home, we go to the place that Christ went to prepare for us. From there we continue onward.

Now this I can believe.

Michael

 

[Hedshaker]

Dear Hedshaker,

I'm sorry that I misunderstood you. I just saw mopping up the floor and went ballistic. I am more correct than you realize though. What is blancmange? Plasterboard or Whitewall? Will talk with you again soon, hopefully!!

Warmest Regards & Cheerio!!

Michael

blancmange is a type of jello. I don't care that you think you are correct. You always think that. All I'm saying is your debate tactics against Caino have been poor.

 

[Hedshaker]

Dear Hedshaker,

The talking serpent in the garden of Eden telepathically talked with Eve. Not with it's mouth, amigo.

How do you know? Telepathy has never been proven, though there have been some fraudulent trickery. Case-in-point..... a pair of young twins who could make high pitched noises that each could hear to signal one another, but adults could not hear them, which fooled the testers for a while.

 

[Caino]

Dear Caino,

They were probably all wondering where this 'Pella' is. And why do these UB members feel it necessary to call the Earth 'Urantia?' I mean, what possessed them to do so? Why or why don't they just call it Earth? It's good enough for God to call it Earth. So what gives? And why the confusing, hard to understand, lingo/language? Heaven forbid that someone will figure out that it's all a ruse? Whatever. It is your religion, so I will try to quit discussing it, if I get the chance.

Michael

Pella was one of the cities Jesus and the apostles visited and preached at during the Decapolis Tour. I don't know what it is now. Urantia is the heavenly name for our world that we call earth. All worlds have names and numbers. Ours is 606 in the system of Satania. Jesus has 10,000,000 inhabited worlds under his creatorship.

 

[Hedshaker]

The most sincere non-believers aren't on religious forums, they live and let live.

Some of us are looking to a more rational world for our grand kids to enjoy. And it will come eventually because you guys cannot fool all of the people all of the time. New generations will not buy it.

Faith is no gift. It is simply a trick to fool the gullible. Faith can be used to believe anything. There are methods to seek truth that include testable evidence. Faith is not one of them.

 

[Caino]

Some of us are looking to a more rational world for our grand kids to enjoy. And it will come eventually because you guys cannot fool all of the people all of the time. New generations will not buy it.

Faith is no gift. It is simply a trick to fool the gullible. Faith can be used to believe anything. There are methods to seek truth that include testable evidence. Faith is not one of them.

If you inexplicably received the gift of faith you would concede the point, faith is a gift.

We do have experience on this world with some attempts at a "more rational" godless society to reference. No thanks.

Replacing the values of religion with the presumably superior values of Atheist leaders, again, no thanks.

Love can't be quantified in the math lab.

While mocking my claim of the perception of transcendent realities, you are simultaneously transcending the purely material in your super-material observation. You must by default be apart from the universe as a conscious being in order to observe it.

 

[alwight]

The most sincere non-believers aren't on religious forums, they live and let live.

Wouldn't you prefer to believe in something honest for a change that is rational and supportable by material evidence rather than something that at worst is arguably highly dishonest while also being rather easy to hold to the fire of rational scrutiny for those who are so inclined?

Otoh perhaps you have convinced yourself that living this life as part of a grand imaginary fantasy/delusion is better than to face up to a perhaps harsher material reality?
So perhaps you don't really care if any of it is actually true or not?

Religions historically have presented themselves to ordinary people as purveyors of a divine truth and an absolute morality which is disregarded at your eternal peril, while it promises eternal rewards if you only do as you're told, I'd say an institutionalised deception and lie designed to control.

If as it seems to many non-believers anyway that it is all just a con trick and a lie aimed at gullible people, then why should we "live and let live" when some people might be persuaded to live this life rather than feel obliged to treat it as a waiting room for the unlikely afterlife version of whichever religious/spiritual doctrine it happens to be?

 

[Hedshaker]

If you inexplicably received the gift of faith you would concede the point, faith is a gift.

Anything can be believed by faith, no matter how far fetched or how ridiculous. If that to you is a gift then that is very sad. Yet, in a way I can understand.... if you really want something to be true but have no evidence then you have nothing but faith. No wonder you convince yourself it's a gift. It would me amusing if it wasn't so very sad.

We do have experience on this world with some attempts at a "more rational" godless society to reference. No thanks.

You sound very bigoted toward atheists.

Replacing the values of religion with the presumably superior values of Atheist leaders, again, no thanks.

Your bias is showing. I see no value in believing things not in evidence. I hold no grudge against believers but their daft beliefs are fair game.

Love can't be quantified in the math lab.

Nor do the faithful have a monopoly on love.

While mocking my claim of the perception of transcendent realities, you are simultaneously transcending the purely material in your super-material observation. You must by default be apart from the universe as a conscious being in order to observe it.

Unadulterated nonsense!

 

[Caino]

Wouldn't you prefer to believe in something honest for a change that is rational and supportable by material evidence rather than something that at worst is arguably highly dishonest while also being rather easy to hold to the fire of rational scrutiny for those who are so inclined?

Otoh perhaps you have convinced yourself that living this life as part of a grand imaginary fantasy/delusion is better than to face up to a perhaps harsher material reality?
So perhaps you don't really care if any of it is actually true or not?

Religions historically have presented themselves to ordinary people as purveyors of a divine truth and an absolute morality which is disregarded at your eternal peril, while it promises eternal rewards if you only do as you're told, I'd say an institutionalised deception and lie designed to control.

If as it seems to many non-believers anyway that it is all just a con trick and a lie aimed at gullible people, then why should we "live and let live" when some people might be persuaded to live this life rather than feel obliged to treat it as a waiting room for the unlikely afterlife version of whichever religious/spiritual doctrine it happens to be?

Your pessimism isn't supported by material evidence either, to the contrary, it's proof positive that the world of the pessimist isn't entirely material.

 

[Caino]

Dear Caino,

That doesn't mean Jesus was nuts, though, now does it? Are you talking about when He was 12 years old? Of course His family would want Him to come with them. Some people ARE nuts and some aren't. You'll never find out for sure without the passing of time. I'm willing to wait to see if you are right!! No problem at all. This infighting is more than ridiculous. We should be talking about the ways were are the same instead of the ways that we are different, since we seem like we might be on the right page. But don't come mixing Christianity with Hinduism and who knows what else. That's where we differ. We also differ on certain scriptural verses. But whatever.

Michael

Not when Jesus was 12, it was after he began his public teaching.


Mark 3

Jesus Accused by His Family and by Teachers of the Law

20 Then Jesus entered a house, and again a crowd gathered, so that he and his disciples were not even able to eat. 21 When his family heard about this, they went to take charge of him, for they said, “He is out of his mind.”

22 And the teachers of the law who came down from Jerusalem said, “He is possessed by Beelzebul! By the prince of demons he is driving out demons.”

 

[Yorzhik]

Misapplying Shannon's Noisy Channel Theorem is not getting you anywhere because you end up relying on a circular argument: you assume that mutations are always bad because Shannon assumed noise in a communications channel were undesirable, and engineers who have decided that they want to reproduce a signal exactly do the same. ALL assumption, with no rational given by you for assuming that to be the case when looking at DNA copying.

The rationale was given. Do you remember what it was or are you calling people names like "fool" and "laughing stock" because you want to cover for your ignorance?

To upset one of the most widely accepted physical theory (by actual scientist who understand what they are talking about) you must offer more that unjustified assumptions, Yorz. You are flogging a dead horse, yet you are convinced despite all the evidence that you can get the old nag on its feet. Even the other YECs here have abandoned your argument. You are a laughing stock.

Yet I'm the one that uses the theory as it was meant to be used with messaging, and you are the one that contradicts himself:

I have never claimed noise works better

...

It is those rare ones that make the organism function better

And why deny Shannon? Because... because... common descent just has to be true:

mutations work because without them there is no substantive evolution.

!

 

[alwight]

Your pessimism isn't supported by material evidence either, to the contrary, it's proof positive that the world of the pessimist isn't entirely material.

I see, so you don't want to or can't respond to my questions and then choose to invent a supposed pessimism for no obvious reason, I think I'll go talk to the cat instead. lain:

 

[Caino]

I see, so you don't want to or can't respond to my questions and then choose to invent a supposed pessimism for no obvious reason, I think I'll go talk to the cat instead. lain:

Your questions weren't serious, they were accusations more than anything. So I didn't feel answering them would be taken seriously.

 

[Caino]

Michael, This is the dig that is uncovering the 12,000 year old Göbekli Tepe ruins. The UB reveled that this area was once home to the superior civilization of the Adamites who were later overrun by inferior culture. The Göbekli Tepe settlement was deliberately buried as it was likely the source of fear and aw by succeeding cultures and their beliefs. http://www.ancient-origine.com/gobekli-tepe-fantastic-new-photos-11000-year-old-temple-complex-oldest-known/