Creation vs. Evolution

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Caino

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Dear Caino,

Satan fell from Heaven before Adam and Eve were created on the earth. It was him, speaking telepathically through the serpent who fooled Eve. You'll also notice that Adam and Eve did die, just as the Lord God said they would. But they didn't do it until much later. Adam lived for 930 years before he died {see Gen. 5:5}. Living forever had to deal with having eternal life in Heaven. So Adam lived just as long as the rest of them did on earth. He didn't die fast from eating from the evil tree.

Michael

Michael, in the chronology of the story Satan, represented by the term "crafty beast" wasn't something that resembled a snake until after he successfully tripped up Eve. But even then its a poetic term for the rebel celestial. The point is, it would be more accurate to say sin entered the world through Satan then Adam.....but the world had already fallen, death is normal for man but it wasn't for Adam and Eve, 2 incarnate celestials who could use "the tree of life" to sustain life indefinitely as long as they remained loyal to the Father.

I believe, as is revealed in the UB, that there is a much bigger, older story with much more explanation. The "crafty beast" or fallen Prince of this world, had been on the evolved earth 500,000 years before Adam and Eves arrival. He had a staff of 100 super-mortal volunteers who came with him to begin the teaching about the Universal Father as well as provide spiritual guidance and leadership for the populated earth. Lucifer, a high administrator who oversaw many inhabited worlds under the creatorship of Michael, fell into sin and rebellion against the rule of the unseen father on Paradise. He managed to convince many other planetary princes to follow him as well as many different orders of celestial beings. "There was war in heaven", an ideological war of allegiance between the rule of the unseen the Father through his Son Michael, or to Lucifer, who sought to set up his own administration.
 

Caino

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From my religion so to speak:

102:6.7 "Belief may not be able to resist doubt and withstand fear, but faith is always triumphant over doubting, for faith is both positive and living. The positive always has the advantage over the negative, truth over error, experience over theory, spiritual realities over the isolated facts of time and space. The convincing evidence of this spiritual certainty consists in the social fruits of the spirit which such believers, faithers, yield as a result of this genuine spiritual experience. Said Jesus: “If you love your fellows as I have loved you, then shall all men know that you are my disciples.”

102:6.8 To science God is a possibility, to psychology a desirability, to philosophy a probability, to religion a certainty, an actuality of religious experience. Reason demands that a philosophy which cannot find the God of probability should be very respectful of that religious faith which can and does find the God of certitude. Neither should science discount religious experience on grounds of credulity, not so long as it persists in the assumption that man's intellectual and philosophic endowments emerged from increasingly lesser intelligences the further back they go, finally taking origin in primitive life which was utterly devoid of all thinking and feeling.

102:6.9 The facts of evolution must not be arrayed against the truth of the reality of the certainty of the spiritual experience of the religious living of the God-knowing mortal. Intelligent men should cease to reason like children and should attempt to use the consistent logic of adulthood, logic which tolerates the concept of truth alongside the observation of fact. Scientific materialism has gone bankrupt when it persists, in the face of each recurring universe phenomenon, in refunding its current objections by referring what is admittedly higher back into that which is admittedly lower. Consistency demands the recognition of the activities of a purposive Creator.

102:6.10 Organic evolution is a fact; purposive or progressive evolution is a truth which makes consistent the otherwise contradictory phenomena of the ever-ascending achievements of evolution. The higher any scientist progresses in his chosen science, the more will he abandon the theories of materialistic fact in favor of the cosmic truth of the dominance of the Supreme Mind. Materialism cheapens human life; the gospel of Jesus tremendously enhances and supernally exalts every mortal. Mortal existence must be visualized as consisting in the intriguing and fascinating experience of the realization of the reality of the meeting of the human upreach and the divine and saving downreach." UB 1955
 

MichaelCadry

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The authors of Genesis weren't there either, it's their opinion from the vantage point of Babylon when the OT books were finalized in the present form. They used information from many sources in Mesipotamia.

Caino,


Who gives you all of this nonsense, except that you make it up from your own imagination. Whatever fits in to your liking is what is seems. I'm not new to your Urantia Book. I went through it all with freelight. And no doubt you taught him!! He no doubt got 'mesmerized.'

Michael
 
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Caino

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Caino,


Who gives you all of this nonsense, except that you make it up from your own imagination. Whatever fits in to your liking is what is seems. I'm not new to your Urantia Book. I went through it all with freelight. And no doubt you taught him!! He no doubt got 'mesmerized

Michael




Michael

Freelight had already found the UB before we met on TOL, he's read everything it seems.

After the Christian church stopped torturing and murdering scientist and Biblical critics, scholars could begin an analysis of the writing of the scripture books. It's common knowledge among the majority of scholars that the Bible books were organized around the time of the Babylonian captivity using older writings.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dating_the_Bible
 

Caino

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-freelight will find everything
-if
-he lives long enough
-but
-he will still not be able to make up his mind

My experience is that Freelight has well defended beliefs, he's not limited to the indoctrination of one institution or singular revelation.
 

Cross Reference

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I've tried to explain to you how a scientific theory sets the highest standard of explanation for all the vast amounts of available natural facts and evidence available everywhere, indicating to more rational people than you perhaps that Darwinian evolution is a virtual fact of life which requires no presumption of a supernatural, but it has fallen on stony ground obviously. :plain:

Sorry, "highest standard" is not good enough to be evidence. All "available natural facts" prove creation not evolution.
 

Caino

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Sorry, "highest standard" is not good enough to be evidence. All "available natural facts" prove creation not evolution.

The authors, editors and redactors of Genesis were neither historians nor philosophers, they were religious leaders who articulated creation through their worldview culling from available information with a bias towards their tribal ancestry.
 

chrysostom

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Freelight believes in God, his life is motivated around the search for truth concerning all related facts associated with his belief. Beyond that you will need to ask him yourself.

freelight is a universalist
-and
-that is all you need to know about him
 

Cross Reference

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The authors, editors and redactors of Genesis were neither historians nor philosophers, they were religious leaders who articulated creation through their worldview culling from available information with a bias towards their tribal ancestry.

Though nothing of it is magical, the Book 'works'. One day soon you will have need of it.
 

Caino

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Though nothing of it is magical, the Book 'works'. One day soon you will have need of it.

I agree it served a purpose in the evolution of religion but it's outdated now. Jesus liberated mankind from the need for idols, relics, traditions and other religions of the mind.
 
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